In people's opinions, is it better to have kids classes divided up by rank or age? Currently the kids classes are broken up only by rank. I know they've lost at least one 14 year old in the advanced class because there was no one near his age (or size) in the class.

There's an 10 year old in the beginners class who's already getting bored, and I know he's not getting what he needs.

So is age more important than rank when creating kids classes?

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Raleigh NC, 1st Dan

rank and age are only "guide lines".  we have a 16 yr old white belt, who is 6", 200 lb, and picking things up very fast.  we didn't think twice before putting him in advanced adults class.  same for 15 yr old white belt, who wasn't all that big (5'5" ish, 120 lb at the most), but was very capable of keeping up with advanced adults class, so we put him in adults class.  we also have a 13 yr old green belt, small for his age, but very talented.  as long as skills and techniques go, he could very well be in adults class, but since he's way too small, he remains in kids class.  we just make sure we push him and couple others harder than other kids.   

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i'm delicious

It depends on what you're working with as far as a student body goes.

If you have fewer students, I'd split the difference between those who CAN spar, and those who are not yet permitted. 

I've seen schools operate a couple of different ways in this.

My last school of which I was a member and trainee instructor, ran it in 3 blocks... you had white orange and yellow, then como, green and purple, then blue on up to recommended black.  Black belts had their own class.

I'd further divide by age only if necessary.  If you run out of people the same size... then you may want to bump up the bigger student to the adults class to keep them challenge. 

The key is, not to hem yourself in, by trying to perfectly fit students into boxes by age or rank.  Sometimes it pays to just be flexible in class assignments.

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Getting through life takes just a LITTLE bit of insanity!*g*

NCBlackBelt wrote: In people's opinions, is it better to have kids classes divided up by rank or age? Currently the kids classes are broken up only by rank. I know they've lost at least one 14 year old in the advanced class because there was no one near his age (or size) in the class. There's an 10 year old in the beginners class who's already getting bored, and I know he's not getting what he needs. So is age more important than rank when creating kids classes?

Personally, I think age and maturity should be the dividing line.  Age greatly affects both physical size and maturity, thus I see it as more of a factor than belt rank.  I do not think that the age division in class should be a rigid one; a thirteen year old with maturity and enough size to practice with adults should be in the adult class.  A fifteen year old who is immature and not so huge that they pose a greater injury potential to younger kids can stay in the kids class.

I do believe that an immature older teen or adult, or an exceptionally large teen, needs to be in the adult class.  Immature adults are a huge problem in my oppinion when mixed with kids.

Our dojang does have a family class, which is a mix of adults and kids, but when the sparring starts, people are partnered by age as the first consideration, then size, then rank.

Having said that, there are mature adults who can spar with a kid without clobbering the kid, providing the kid with a challenge that will help him/her grow their technique by allowing opportunities for offense and defense.

An adult or older teen who must always try to win, no matter who their sparring should never spar with kids.  Sparring in class is supposed to be practice and the time to try new techniques and hone existing ones.  If you're obviously overwhelming your partner, you should ease up and allow them to exercise and practice as well.  After all, practice is for both participants and nobody gets anything out of being clobbered by a much more skilled opponent.  Winning in practice is secondary.

Daniel

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교사 Yidan kumdo, Ildan taekwondo

I agree with the "Irish Cat" (I mean that in a very Sammy Davis jr, kinda way) about dividing by age/maturity vs. rank being best. I currently have them divided by rank. I struggle as an instructor sometimes when I want to teach more complicated items (advanced wrist grabs) or graphic discussions when I have grade schoolers in with adults.

Ideal would be by age/maturity & then by rank (beginer vs advanced) if one has time.  

Why have seperate classes at all?  The best class that we ever had was with Master Eric Suan in Okinawa and there were 100 people on the floor from 6 - 50.  If they were broken up it was by size when it came time for kicking drills.  

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Student of the Zero Chamber Power Kick

about the maturity, i woudln't mind couple of young immature kids in adults class as long as they got what it takes (skills, size, etc).  chances are, no adults will start acting immature because of the kids, if anything, kids will see how things are done in adults class, and that could do wonders for them in improvements.

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i'm delicious

doughboy wrote: about the maturity, i woudln't mind couple of young immature kids in adults class as long as they got what it takes (skills, size, etc).  chances are, no adults will start acting immature because of the kids, if anything, kids will see how things are done in adults class, and that could do wonders for them in improvements.

I'm betting that the poster that added maturity with age was probably thinking of something different than you are DB. Rather than worrying about an immature kid in an adult class, there is more the possibilty of a younger kid who has the maturity to handle an adult class & it may benefit him/her.

Just a thought.

Old_Guy wrote: Why have seperate classes at all?  The best class that we ever had was with Master Eric Suan in Okinawa and there were 100 people on the floor from 6 - 50.  If they were broken up it was by size when it came time for kicking drills.

A good question, but I think that separate classes are almost a must in 70% of the dojos/dojangs in the US.  I cannot speak for studios located abroad.

I would be willing to bet that martial arts in Okinawa, or anywhere else in Asia, is taken more seriously by the population as a whole than it is here.  I say this based on my interaction with martial arts students who come from China, Japan and Korea, not on first hand experience, so this is by no means a definitive statement. 

Martial arts in the US is often used as an after school program by many parents and as a nice form of cardio by a lot of adults.  And many schools have adjusted to this in order to stay in business.  Nothing wrong with that, but in that environment, serious and/or mature students should not be held back by a one hour mixed class with immature and/or indifferent students.  By the same token, students who are there for a martial artsy after school program should not be expected to train at the same level.  For that reason, a divided class works much better in my opinion. 

In the US, football is taken extremely seriously.  It is a part of our culture and kids are started off on it at a very young age and receive a very intense level of drilling at the middle school and high school levels.  Junior varsity and varsity football teams, even freshman football teams, in high school are trained at a level of intensity equal to or greater than an advanced taekwondo class.  They train as if they're preparing for a tournament all year round.  Thats because they are.  Most TKD students do not train that way because they aren't preparing for a tournament every week nine months out of the year. 

I edited this post quite a bit, mainly to shorten it to a reasonable length, but also because I don't want to come off as argumentative or disrespectful.  I hope that I have not.

Daniel

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교사 Yidan kumdo, Ildan taekwondo

"but in that environment, serious and/or mature students should not be held back by a one hour mixed class with immature and/or indifferent students.  By the same token, students who are there for a martial artsy after school program should not be expected to train at the same level"  

There is the difference "immature and/or indifferent students" were asked to leave, literally walked to the door.  Every student was pushed to their best.  You don't have to be the best but you have to do your best.  I liked the football analogy, we do train like every day is game day, everyone did.  It has been that way in every dojang I've been in except for one in Daegu Korea which is a year I would like to forget about.  Master Suan told me that when he moved back to the states he had to tone down the program, a lot of folks just don't want to be pushed or push themselves to be as good as they could be.  But if all people want is a cardio workout isn't there cardio kick boxing or something like it available.  I could see a dojang offering such a class on the side but to let their TKD class become that is disgraceful.  How would anyone put a BB on someone's waist knowing this person now represents you and your school and that they view their training as a cardio program or a "Martial Artsy" after school program.  Please tell me you were just trying to put one over on the Old Guy, it isn't really like that...is it?

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Student of the Zero Chamber Power Kick