If they are not Kukkiwon Certified, then your studio should not allow them to wear a black belt. Tha's how my GM runs things. If they are staying around the area they will have to test for thier black belt through our school.

However regardless you have new black belts that don't amount to anyting without techinique and etc.

I find you must push them harder, becuase as black belts they set an example for other students.  I have a situtation right now where I have a kid who wears a black belt who is not Kukkiwon certified and was allowed to wear his belt, which is wrong. But since it is too late, I can't make him wear a color belt now. He has very little techinque and he doesn't know his forms. So he has to learn all the color belt forms before he can stand at the head of the class. Currently he is progressing and is now at green belt forms. So now he stands in line with the green belts, although he wears a black belt.

Until he can pass a true black belt test, then he will not be considered a true black belt at our school. It's tough going but he, if you wear a black belt you had to have earned it through hard work and training.  

 This is a great opportunity for you.

 You see, in life, you're going to run into that ALL the time.  The snooty twerp that can't type their name without hurting themselves, gets promoted over the top of a more talented and harder worker ALL the time in the working world.

You can't get too hung up on things when that sort of thing happens.

 Something I've learned in life, is that no matter what anyone else does, if you do what you're supposed to do, the way you're supposed to do it, and do it RIGHT, even when you can get away with doing otherwise... sooner or later, it pays off BIG...

 But if you go in half-a--ed and act like a twerp...  yeah... you can still get somewhere... but sooner or later... you get your's...

 My advice... use positive peer pressure.  That means you and all the black belts that are doing it right, KEEP doing it right.  Do not disparage those who are not.  Just YOU keep doing right.

 It's been my experience that even white belts figure out pretty quick, who to watch and who to NOT watch.

 It's also been my experience that 'lazy' or 'bad attitude' black belts do NOT last.

Lazy and bad attitude types, are like a lone mouse standing in the middle of a room full of cats... sooner or later, that mouse gets VERY unconfortable, and either departs quickly, or gets eaten. 

Ergo... the lazy and bad attitude types stick out like a sore thumb... and usually, an instructor leans on them to 'shape up or ship out' in due time.  OR, they get so tired of everyone else getting positive attention, that they shape up in order to get some positive attention for themselves.

 Give it time, and keep doing your personal best at what YOU do, as a student and as a black belt, and don't worry about those 'students with issues'.  You just keep doing your job... let them do whatever... and I gurantee you... everything will eventually work out, and either they'll improve (which would be great!), or they'll be gone.. (sad, but not the end of the world... they make wake up later and correct themselves and come back having turned over a new leaf)

I'm not sure I agree with this, generally. I'm not certified (I've been waiting on one of the grandmasters in Va. to get this done for a couple of years). But I'll put what I've learned, my techniques and how I got there up against anyone's program.  WHen I moved to NC, I looked into the big WTF school chain in the area ,and off the bat they said I'd have to start over again, without me ever putting on a dobak. Esentially throwing away the eight years that it took me to get there. I was insulted and dismissed the entire chain.

My opinion is that you judge each incoming student based on what they can demonstrate. Do they know the curriculmn that you're teaching? are they coming from a different org? How do their techniques look? Quality training can be seen pretty readily.

Would you bust Steven Lopez back to red belt if he wasn't KKW certified?

Now having said all this... an incoming black belt who keeps his belt, shouldn't test for promotion until he or she has learned everything that any other black belt in the school would be required to know/demonstrate to be promoted, regardless of where they are in the promotion time line.

Not trying to start an argument, but KKW certs aren't everything.

NCBlackBelt,

I absolutely AGREE...

If a 9th degree black belt told me something like that, I'd tell him "Thank you kindly Sir.  Have a wonderful day."

And I'd walk out and go elsewhere.

I'll go even further.  I don't even CARE about certificates really.  Heck... the way things are... my current certificate is in a drawer.  It's a keepsake for me... maybe someday my kids or grandkids will enjoy looking at it while we discuss how I got my black belt.

My real certificate, is what I know... which I always try to increase.  That's the ONLY thing that nobody can physically remove from me.

You can burn my uniform and belt.  You can burn my certificates.  Someday someone may take a wrecking ball to ATA HQ and destroy my past records there...

Nobody can take away, what I've learned.  I can demonstrate what I've learned.  I can discuss what I've learned.  I can share what I've learned.  I can IMPROVE ON what I've learned, by learning more, from everyone... whether they aren't in martial arts, whether they're a white belt, or a black belt, or a belt in between.  I know what I DO NOT know, also.  And I know there's a million plus people out there AT LEAST, who know more than I'll EVER know.

THAT is my certificate, and the only one that really counts for anything.

And if a student comes to me... and says they have a black belt... far as I'm concerned... I don't care if they got it from a cracker jack box... I'm going to work with them for anywhere from two weeks to a month, before I even 'think' about asking them to consider a lower starting point.  I'm going to see what they do know, and how it stacks up with what I expect for that rank under my curriculum.

If the chief problem is that they don't know my forms... THAT is no big deal to me.  I'll work that out with them to get them up to speed.  A good black belt of TKD can learn any form in the TKD world rather readily with just a little guidance.

If the chief problem is, that they obviously don't know a dang thing... I'll sit down with them and lay out where they are, and where they need to be to be a black belt in my school... and we'll work out a path to get them there that's appropriate to their skill level, and even if I hand them a white belt.. I'll tell them, "Don't lose that black belt!  You're gonna need it later!"

If they're in a hurry to make it up to black... that's fine, if they're willing to put the hard work and time in to get there... the extra practice at home... the extra study to get up to speed... that's great... when their knowledge and character get up to the appropriate levels that JUSTIFY the rank belt being around their waist... they'll get there.

I will say this though... I still maintain that a black belt, in and of itself, doesn't mean a thing... it's only cloth.  It's what is in the person that gives the belt true meaning.

I can put on a belt with 9 gold stripes and all the fancy embroidery I want... It does not change who I am or what I'm worth, or what I know.

I can put a white belt on... and it still changes nothing.

I saw an article where Tom Callos made the call, to 'give the black belt the meaning it deserves by raising our standards for awarding it'.

That man comes up with a lot of great ideas and he's a credit to the martial arts...  but I respecfully disagree with his posture on belts.  It's time we gave them LESS 'meaning'... make them LESS of a status symbol... and remind our students that what REALLY means something... is WHAT THEY ARE AS PEOPLE...

...in what they KNOW
...in their ability to LEARN and KEEP LEARNING and CHERISH learning
...in their ability and action to ASPIRE TO EXCELLENCE IN THEIR LIVES IN ALL AREAS
...in their CHARACTER as PEOPLE
...in their WORDS AND DEEDS
...in their ability to be PRODUCTIVE, HUMANE people
...in their sense of healthy self-esteem and self respect which...
....makes them a blessing to society in their own special right...

The belts are just cloth and the certificates are just paper.

If we aren't doing what I just mentioned above...  neither the cloth nor the certificates are worth a penny.

If we ARE doing the above... and doing it well... we ARE giving our belts meaning and honor.