Thanks Daniel.  I agree that once you have a ruleset and start competitions, an ART becomes a SPORT.  Doesn't necessarily mean the ART ceases to be, it just means it adapts to the ruleset for the competition. 

Great job in your explaination. 

Thanks Kent!

I guess from my perspective, there never was an 'art' in MMA, because it was never approached as one; it is cage fighting with skills from various fighting methods being applied to the competition.  So while taekwondo as a sport has the art as a whole to point back to as its obvious source, MMA really doesn't.  Why?  Because its cage fighting.

Nothing wrong with that, mind you.

Daniel

Wise and concise.

Search "Martial" on dictionary.com:
1. inclined or disposed to war; warlike: The ancient Romans were a martial people. 2. of, suitable for, or associated with war or the armed forces: martial music. 3. characteristic of or befitting a warrior: a martial stride.

Search "Art" and the results are numerous, most referring to aesthetics, and then:
7. the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning: the art of baking; the art of selling. 8. the craft or trade using these principles or methods. 9. skill in conducting any human activity: a master at the art of conversation.
I will get back to the definitions in a moment. Firstly, I agree that MMA is used very loosely. But so is Taekwondo. I see some people who do taekwondo, and I question what they are learning. That's their own business.

Back to the definition. Martial Art in the purest form refers to principles of combat, as used for war-like practices. People are hung up on the idea thatMMA is still sport, and they don't train for the reality of the street. Some might comment that UFC MMA has rules, so it's nothing like reality. In real life, we would do anything to survive. Seriously, I know some schools talk about it, but lets face it, I know most schools don't have curriculum including 'proper biting', or 'scratching 101.' What's my point? I don't think most schools train any more real than good MMA competitors do. Anyways, MMA guys know how to eye gouge and play dirty- you some trying it now and then. They can break their rules for the street.

If we solely look at the definition of "martial" and think about rules- technically, there are even rules concerning war. Look it up. So, sticking to the definition, since people like coming back to that, MMA fit the definition.

As for it not being an 'art'. What is art? Look at the definition. Let's not get high and mighty and get into the whole spiritual this, and honour that. Art refers to principles or methods governing a craft. MMA certainly applies. Martial art in its purest form is how to lay a beat down, or keep yourself from getting one.

I do have to say though, that the definition applies best to those who have actually trained in systems of MMA, rather than the shmoes who walk in off the street and have no principles of fighting other than, "I hit the guy, and hope he falls."

Having said that. What is the ideal martial arts? Well, that would include passing on tenets such as grace and self-control. Is the average pure MMA competitor a complete martial artist in my eyes? No. I believe a complete martial artist needs to know how to control someone without hurting them badly, which most of them couldn't do unless they had extensive jujitsu training.

So, let not put the words martial art on a pedestal. In their barest, essential form, they are a way to physically defend yourself through physical means. Do MMA competitors qualify? Yes. As for rules...? I already explained myself on that. Should we aspire to bring martial arts to another level as a tool for personal growth and understanding? Most definitely.

Let the retorts and misquotes begin!

-Your good buddy choco

Truth be told unlike cage fighters the goal of traditional martial arts is not for compettions.  Cage fighters train hard to fight, last I knew this was not the  goal of Taekwondo, Shaolin Kempo or any of the other traditonal martial arts. 

When I got into taekwondo, the goal was to train hard to be able to fight.  Not so much now with most, though for me, it is still the goal.  I train, however to be able to fight to save my life outside of the ring, which is a very different skillset than ring fighting.

Regarding the whole 'martial art' thing, as Choco pointed out, by the definition, a case can be made for MMA.  But the term 'martial art' is now a coloquialism, not a literal term.  Even when it was a literal term, I consider it to be not the best translation/description of what most martial arts were that became popularized.  I'd say that a better definition is 'fighting method.' 

Likewise, MMA is now a coloquialism, not a literal term.  It has its own meaning apart from merely being 'mixed martial arts.'  MMA, in my opinion, is a sport focused fighting method, just as olympic taekwondo is, albeit a more versatile sport fighting method than olympic taekwondo is.

Daniel

Choco_mix is on the right path. Before an intelligent discussion can take place, partcipants need to agree on how terms are defined. So, before you can take one position or another on whetehr MMA is a Martial Art you need to define "Martial Art"

For an article exploring this see:

http://www.geocities.com/ustfregion5/What.html

This was published in TKD Times in 2002

hello freinds,

according to me we cant issue any opinion without clearing some definitions and it's not easy at all,

let's give an example of that difficulty:

one of our freinds posted that MMA is a combination of martial arts and gived it as a reason to exclude it from the martial arts category, however while taking a look to the history of the most common martial arts you'll find that most of them were created by combining(mixing) other martial arts that the founders practiced before creating their own method

just to remember you dont isue your opinion too quickly i'll be back in tis topic just give me the time to find the words or to emprove my english

Of course & as usual Master Weiss is correct. How can you decide if MMA is a MA if you don't define what a MA is. To me it seems to be that MMAs has exploded in popularity as what was once traditional MAs have become so watered down by insurance regs, the sport emphasis, too many kids & too many other demands or weaknesses. So those that at a time who sought SD find many MA schools mcdojos, so they look to MMAs which seem to focus on fighting minus many of the perceived distractions found in the watered down mcdojos that seem to be everywhere