| Total Views: 154 - Total Replies: 12 |
|
I have a really good student that the majority of the time makes good decisions. I have recently been informed that he has made a very poor decision that has ended up with him being expelled from school for the rest of the year. I am wondering if having him at the school is going to set a bad example for the students. This student is supposed to be testing for his black belt in april. This student will not be testing, but is allowing him to continue being at the school a good idea?I fully believe in the Martial Arts way, I totally agree with tough love, dicipline, and self control. pushing when needed to be pushed. How is the right way to go about dealing with the problem? any insight would be appriciated. Thank You for your time, Ms_Dunlap
--------------------------------------------------------------
60lbs and counting! Bring it on!
|
|
understand the entire story from the student. if u find doubt hes tellin the truth then ask the school. udnerstand his decision, then decide. He's been expelled frmo school, if u expel him now he may turn even worse, no proper place to be at.
--------------------------------------------------------------
To win, we must prepare, even for the impossible.
|
| Back To Top |
|
i would get both the school and his parents side of the story before i made any sort of decision. it would also depend on the nature of the expulsion.
|
| Back To Top |
|
That is a decision that is up to you. In my opinion, I think it depends on what he was expelled for. The school most likely won't talk to you about the case because they legally can't. But consider that maybe having him in your school can make your school seem like to harbor troublemakers and give it a bad reputation in the community.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Exwrestler turned Martial Artist
|
| Back To Top |
|
Ms. Dunlap, I would ask you to think very carefully about this. First thing I want to say here, is that the SCHOOL has already addressed the behavior, and rendered a punishment. So considering that, I would be hesitant to jump on the bandwagon and punish the student 'more'. Schools today, tend to punish by a written policy, that is very often inflexible. If you do something, they may not consider all the circumstances and adjust the punishment to fit the 'real' situation. They just look at the rule violated and level the written punishment. One example is the 'zero tolerence' on violence rule, where not only does the attacking student get suspended, but also, the one being attacked who didn't want to fight to begin with, is also punished just as severely. So bear that trend in mind as well. This is actually a golden opportunity for you, to show this student, what training in the martial way actually MEANS. You have already stated that you have what you feel is a good student there. That alone, tells me that you perhaps have a connection with the student, that the school itself may not also enjoy. I would like you to consider evaluating your position with the student, and to speak with the student, or perhaps his parents, and explain to his parents you'd like to help your student recover from this mistake, and overcome it. Rule number one about kids is this... "Kids do some really STUPID things" Kids haven't cultivated the judgment skills that adults would generally expect of people. There will be many challenges for that kid. We live in a world where once someone screws up seriously, very few people want to step forward to help them recover, and move on BETTER for the experience and reaching higher... rather than just giving up and continuing their trip 'down the drain'. As a martial arts instructor, you're a leader. Good leaders, when possible, try to help their subordinates recover from setbacks, and then show them how to set themselves up for success and reach that success. Think about the martial arts, and our ethics that we teach in our studios. One of those things we teach, is 'never giving up'. What kind of message does it say to your student, if you 'write him off' for an offense that did not happen in your school? Another thing we teach, is that we're going to screw up. First thing we tell white belts usually, is not to be worried about making mistakes. That everyone learns Taekwondo through a process of tutored trial and error, and that if they keep trying, they 'will' catch on, and get better over time. So we're teaching them that mistakes aren't the end of the world. What kind of message would be sent to your troubled student, if you made THIS mistake, "the end of his TKD world"? Obviously, you will want to reenforce the lesson that he needs to take from this mistake. I would be looking for positive ways to reenforce it and 'give him practice time' at 'doing right' rather than 'doing wrong'. I would also be looking for ways to set reachable goals, to keep the student's confidence and esteem level 'high'. If you 'must'... delay the test for black belt for a time. And in doing that, explain that you want to work with the student on some components of BEING a black belt, that go beyond punching and kicking, and express you're confidence in his ability to learn those things. This is your huge chance, to make a REAL difference for your student. What we teach about kicking and punching is actually the least important things we teach. What we teach students about how they can make the most of their lfe, and do so while contributing to their familes and their community... IS what this art is about. We should be raising "Taekwondo Warriors" in our schools. And Taekwondo Warriors... are people who contribute to the world around them, with their black belt attitude, their dedication to peace, and their ability to lead others toward positive goals in life. (And they've got some pretty radical kicking and punching skills as a fringe benefit that they can apply to save a life if necessary, as well) Try to use this incident in your student's life, as a springboard to 'really' teach them what the martial arts is about... show that student that they CAN overcome their error and reach for a higher goal, and be the BETTER for having gone through this, if they keep a good black belt attitude. Make their education in school, a part of their Taekwondo world... stress that importance. See the direction I'm talking about trying to take here?;) Do a good job on this... and you may just find that this will be one student, who years later, will be one that you can take a special pride in. The pride we all want to enjoy... when we say, "YES! I made a difference in their life!!".
--------------------------------------------------------------
Getting through life takes just a LITTLE bit of insanity!*g*
|
| Back To Top |
|
Ranger, Thank you so much. I understand what you are saying. I guess I needed reinfrocement that I was making the right decision. I know that this instance I have the oppertunity to make a lasting impression on this child. I did talk with the parents today. The offence really does not fit the punishment.
I guess it can be said that I was warned about the situation and was not quite sure how to handle it. Seeing I have never been put in this situation before. this is both a learning experience for me and the student. but I am positive that we will make it out just fine :)
As for the student I think at this point a bb testing is on the fence. We will have to see what happens.
When I think about martial arts I think about how many trouble students turn to us to make a difference in there lives. I see my oppertunity I just pray that I can fill the shoes that are set in front of me.
thank you all for your support and input, I look forward to hearing what others still think.
Ms. Dunlap
--------------------------------------------------------------
60lbs and counting! Bring it on!
|
| Back To Top |
|
| POSTED BY: Old_Guy on 09/20/2008 19:48:50 |
|
I can understand your dilema because you want to set the right example for the rest of your students. Personally if it didn't endanger the safety of my students and the person wasn't disrupting my classes what happened at school is truly none of your business. If an adult student was cheating on their spouse, do you throw them out? What if a family cheats on their income tax, or has the police called on them because a party got out of hand? My personal view on this is that as much as we would like what we are teaching to have a profound impact on an individual's life that is left up to the individual receiving the lesson. You run a business, this person is a client paying for a service. If you denied me my BB based on something that happened outside of class and had nothing to do with the class and it was understood that my goal in rcving training was to get my BB and certification. If I had met all of criteria to test and rcv this certification and not been awarded it, I would sue you for all of my fee's and for the time that I had spent under your tuteldge. The Martail Arts can be a lot of things to a lot of people, a sport, a method of self defense, a workout program, or a way of life. If instructors are going to hold their students to that higher standard in and out of the dojang it definately needs to be understood. It should be placed right up front from the minute they walk in. I don't mean an unspoken understanding betwen parties I mean a written and signed understanding between instructor and student. If it isn't then what you have is an instructor tieing in additional criteria at the last minute. It's wrong, and it's unfair and doesn't say a lot for your integrity as an instructor. If your students have all been told that you are holding them accountable for what they do in and out of the dojang, that they must stay in school, have no scrapes with the law, and any thing else that you want to tag on (no cheating, drinking, running around, invasion of privacy, computer hacking, etc etc) or that they would no longer be allowed to train in your dojang then they have no one to blame but themselves when they are forced out. If not then what goes on out of the class as long as it doesn't interfere with your calss is out of your control and none of your business.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Was that hands up and chin down, or the other way around?
|
| Back To Top |
|
|
ranger1100ky wrote:
Ms. Dunlap, I would ask you to think very carefully about this. First thing I want to say here, is that the SCHOOL has already addressed the behavior, and rendered a punishment. So considering that, I would be hesitant to jump on the bandwagon and punish the student 'more'. Schools today, tend to punish by a written policy, that is very often inflexible. If you do something, they may not consider all the circumstances and adjust the punishment to fit the 'real' situation. They just look at the rule violated and level the written punishment. One example is the 'zero tolerence' on violence rule, where not only does the attacking student get suspended, but also, the one being attacked who didn't want to fight to begin with, is also punished just as severely. So bear that trend in mind as well. This is actually a golden opportunity for you, to show this student, what training in the martial way actually MEANS. You have already stated that you have what you feel is a good student there. That alone, tells me that you perhaps have a connection with the student, that the school itself may not also enjoy. I would like you to consider evaluating your position with the student, and to speak with the student, or perhaps his parents, and explain to his parents you'd like to help your student recover from this mistake, and overcome it. Rule number one about kids is this... "Kids do some really STUPID things" Kids haven't cultivated the judgment skills that adults would generally expect of people. There will be many challenges for that kid. We live in a world where once someone screws up seriously, very few people want to step forward to help them recover, and move on BETTER for the experience and reaching higher... rather than just giving up and continuing their trip 'down the drain'. As a martial arts instructor, you're a leader. Good leaders, when possible, try to help their subordinates recover from setbacks, and then show them how to set themselves up for success and reach that success. Think about the martial arts, and our ethics that we teach in our studios. One of those things we teach, is 'never giving up'. What kind of message does it say to your student, if you 'write him off' for an offense that did not happen in your school? Another thing we teach, is that we're going to screw up. First thing we tell white belts usually, is not to be worried about making mistakes. That everyone learns Taekwondo through a process of tutored trial and error, and that if they keep trying, they 'will' catch on, and get better over time. So we're teaching them that mistakes aren't the end of the world. What kind of message would be sent to your troubled student, if you made THIS mistake, "the end of his TKD world"? Obviously, you will want to reenforce the lesson that he needs to take from this mistake. I would be looking for positive ways to reenforce it and 'give him practice time' at 'doing right' rather than 'doing wrong'. I would also be looking for ways to set reachable goals, to keep the student's confidence and esteem level 'high'. If you 'must'... delay the test for black belt for a time. And in doing that, explain that you want to work with the student on some components of BEING a black belt, that go beyond punching and kicking, and express you're confidence in his ability to learn those things. This is your huge chance, to make a REAL difference for your student. What we teach about kicking and punching is actually the least important things we teach. What we teach students about how they can make the most of their lfe, and do so while contributing to their familes and their community... IS what this art is about. We should be raising "Taekwondo Warriors" in our schools. And Taekwondo Warriors... are people who contribute to the world around them, with their black belt attitude, their dedication to peace, and their ability to lead others toward positive goals in life. (And they've got some pretty radical kicking and punching skills as a fringe benefit that they can apply to save a life if necessary, as well) Try to use this incident in your student's life, as a springboard to 'really' teach them what the martial arts is about... show that student that they CAN overcome their error and reach for a higher goal, and be the BETTER for having gone through this, if they keep a good black belt attitude. Make their education in school, a part of their Taekwondo world... stress that importance. See the direction I'm talking about trying to take here?;) Do a good job on this... and you may just find that this will be one student, who years later, will be one that you can take a special pride in. The pride we all want to enjoy... when we say, "YES! I made a difference in their life!!".
|
this responce is right on key. I have a truble child in my class tkd has helped him reached new hights in school. Put your self in hid shoes. tkd is all you have after such a punishment. I also so know of a young girl in my best friends dojang far away, she was on a very bad track. we did not harp on her but we joked around with her on the topic. it was the only way to reach her. I tkd school is more than training ground. its a way of life and people believe in that way. that way has power that reaches us on a plane we cant explane in general words. That young lady is doing very well. she was pulled froma path of destruction and Death. but i say all that but i have dismissed students form my ranks because of there parents actions.So i say if he corrupts your class and you cant contain it.
--------------------------------------------------------------
TAE KWON DO FOREVER
|
| Back To Top |
|
|
Old_Guy wrote:
I can understand your dilema because you want to set the right example for the rest of your students. Personally if it didn't endanger the safety of my students and the person wasn't disrupting my classes what happened at school is truly none of your business. If an adult student was cheating on their spouse, do you throw them out? What if a family cheats on their income tax, or has the police called on them because a party got out of hand? My personal view on this is that as much as we would like what we are teaching to have a profound impact on an individual's life that is left up to the individual receiving the lesson. You run a business, this person is a client paying for a service. If you denied me my BB based on something that happened outside of class and had nothing to do with the class and it was understood that my goal in rcving training was to get my BB and certification. If I had met all of criteria to test and rcv this certification and not been awarded it, I would sue you for all of my fee's and for the time that I had spent under your tuteldge.
The Martail Arts can be a lot of things to a lot of people, a sport, a method of self defense, a workout program, or a way of life. If instructors are going to hold their students to that higher standard in and out of the dojang it definately needs to be understood. It should be placed right up front from the minute they walk in. I don't mean an unspoken understanding betwen parties I mean a written and signed understanding between instructor and student. If it isn't then what you have is an instructor tieing in additional criteria at the last minute. It's wrong, and it's unfair and doesn't say a lot for your integrity as an instructor. If your students have all been told that you are holding them accountable for what they do in and out of the dojang, that they must stay in school, have no scrapes with the law, and any thing else that you want to tag on (no cheating, drinking, running around, invasion of privacy, computer hacking, etc etc) or that they would no longer be allowed to train in your dojang then they have no one to blame but themselves when they are forced out. If not then what goes on out of the class as long as it doesn't interfere with your calss is out of your control and none of your business.
|
Not quite sure how to reply to this entry. But, Thank You.
--------------------------------------------------------------
60lbs and counting! Bring it on!
|
| Back To Top |
|
|
ranger1100ky wrote:
Ms. Dunlap, I would ask you to think very carefully about this. First thing I want to say here, is that the SCHOOL has already addressed the behavior, and rendered a punishment. So considering that, I would be hesitant to jump on the bandwagon and punish the student 'more'. Schools today, tend to punish by a written policy, that is very often inflexible. If you do something, they may not consider all the circumstances and adjust the punishment to fit the 'real' situation. They just look at the rule violated and level the written punishment. One example is the 'zero tolerence' on violence rule, where not only does the attacking student get suspended, but also, the one being attacked who didn't want to fight to begin with, is also punished just as severely. So bear that trend in mind as well. This is actually a golden opportunity for you, to show this student, what training in the martial way actually MEANS. You have already stated that you have what you feel is a good student there. That alone, tells me that you perhaps have a connection with the student, that the school itself may not also enjoy. I would like you to consider evaluating your position with the student, and to speak with the student, or perhaps his parents, and explain to his parents you'd like to help your student recover from this mistake, and overcome it. Rule number one about kids is this... "Kids do some really STUPID things" Kids haven't cultivated the judgment skills that adults would generally expect of people. There will be many challenges for that kid. We live in a world where once someone screws up seriously, very few people want to step forward to help them recover, and move on BETTER for the experience and reaching higher... rather than just giving up and continuing their trip 'down the drain'. As a martial arts instructor, you're a leader. Good leaders, when possible, try to help their subordinates recover from setbacks, and then show them how to set themselves up for success and reach that success. Think about the martial arts, and our ethics that we teach in our studios. One of those things we teach, is 'never giving up'. What kind of message does it say to your student, if you 'write him off' for an offense that did not happen in your school? Another thing we teach, is that we're going to screw up. First thing we tell white belts usually, is not to be worried about making mistakes. That everyone learns Taekwondo through a process of tutored trial and error, and that if they keep trying, they 'will' catch on, and get better over time. So we're teaching them that mistakes aren't the end of the world. What kind of message would be sent to your troubled student, if you made THIS mistake, "the end of his TKD world"? Obviously, you will want to reenforce the lesson that he needs to take from this mistake. I would be looking for positive ways to reenforce it and 'give him practice time' at 'doing right' rather than 'doing wrong'. I would also be looking for ways to set reachable goals, to keep the student's confidence and esteem level 'high'. If you 'must'... delay the test for black belt for a time. And in doing that, explain that you want to work with the student on some components of BEING a black belt, that go beyond punching and kicking, and express you're confidence in his ability to learn those things. This is your huge chance, to make a REAL difference for your student. What we teach about kicking and punching is actually the least important things we teach. What we teach students about how they can make the most of their lfe, and do so while contributing to their familes and their community... IS what this art is about. We should be raising "Taekwondo Warriors" in our schools. And Taekwondo Warriors... are people who contribute to the world around them, with their black belt attitude, their dedication to peace, and their ability to lead others toward positive goals in life. (And they've got some pretty radical kicking and punching skills as a fringe benefit that they can apply to save a life if necessary, as well) Try to use this incident in your student's life, as a springboard to 'really' teach them what the martial arts is about... show that student that they CAN overcome their error and reach for a higher goal, and be the BETTER for having gone through this, if they keep a good black belt attitude. Make their education in school, a part of their Taekwondo world... stress that importance. See the direction I'm talking about trying to take here?;) Do a good job on this... and you may just find that this will be one student, who years later, will be one that you can take a special pride in. The pride we all want to enjoy... when we say, "YES! I made a difference in their life!!".
|
Ranger I don't want to hear anymore talk about you not being ready to be an Instructor and School Owner, because I can't imagine a better example that you are than this reply. From your heart Sir, that's where being a good Instructor comes from, follow it! Likewise I say to you ms_dunlap, follow your heart. The zero tolerance policy that Ranger1100ky spoke of is one of the reasons I'm running for School Board. Our reactionary pendulum in the US drives me crazy, let's not expect that the people we have put in charge be held accountable for actually dealing with situations on an individual basis, no let's just make a policy so they don't have to think. Then we won't have to worry about firing them and training someone else when they make a bone head decision. We have the opportunity and responsibility as Instructors to offer to our students what I see as a Social Worker are the missing components, Acceptance, Respect, Discipline and Self - Esteem through success. The Arts can be a life changing thing because they fill us with something we don't feel many other places, control of ourselves and our lives. It sounds to me ms_dunlap like your heart is in the right place. I'm sure you will rise to the challenge, if you follow your heart. 
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible and suddenly you will be doing what you thought was impossible"
|
| Back To Top |
|
|