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Ok I decided to post this question because of updated grading guidelines in Singapore which freaked me out.
Q: Do you really do the snap-and-pull-back way of kicking when you do a round kick and front kick? For me, I find that it slows me down, as in, say after my first round kick, I decide to put my leg down in front and perform a front leg round kick. Instead of pulling back my lower leg after contact with the target, I just use the natural recoil [if there is any] and drop my leg, using the downward force, I push up it back up with the ball of my foot [with knee bent] and launch another kick. I don't know, but I find that doing the kick the traditional way kind of spoils the momentum. What about you?
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To win, we must prepare, even for the impossible.
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| POSTED BY: Old_Guy on 09/14/2008 05:14:49 |
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TKDHermit wrote:
Q: Do you really do the snap-and-pull-back way of kicking when you do a round kick and front kick? For me, I find that it slows me down, as in, say after my first round kick, I decide to put my leg down in front and perform a front leg round kick. Instead of pulling back my lower leg after contact with the target, I just use the natural recoil [if there is any] and drop my leg, using the downward force, I push up it back up with the ball of my foot [with knee bent] and launch another kick. I don't know, but I find that doing the kick the traditional way kind of spoils the momentum. What about you?
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Usually my first kick is off of the front leg depending on the opportunity I'll set it down and blast away with the rear leg using that momentum. We were trained to move forward so setting it down and coming with the opposite leg seems perfectly natural to me but if I was going to retract it (about 30 percent of the time) I turn it into a spinning kick, hook, side, or back kick. I really like the roundhouse to the body retract and backick to the face. Because most WTF folks slide out of the way of the first roundhouse and slide in to counter while you're retracting it. Scoring that back kick right in mush makes you feel good whether you win or lose. Does that help at all?
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Was that hands up and chin down, or the other way around?
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Old_Guy wrote:
Usually my first kick is off of the front leg depending on the opportunity I'll set it down and blast away with the rear leg using that momentum. We were trained to move forward so setting it down and coming with the opposite leg seems perfectly natural to me but if I was going to retract it (about 30 percent of the time) I turn it into a spinning kick, hook, side, or back kick. I really like the roundhouse to the body retract and backick to the face. Because most WTF folks slide out of the way of the first roundhouse and slide in to counter while you're retracting it. Scoring that back kick right in mush makes you feel good whether you win or lose. Does that help at all?
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So basically whether you retract it or not depends on the move you're going to use next?
And I kind of don't get what you mean by "I turn it into a spinning kick, hook, side, or back kick" ? I mean I can see how you're going to turn it into a front hook or a side kick, but how do you turn it into a back kick[if you meant back thrust] or a spinning kick? The only possibilities I can see are pivotting on your food which supports when you do the roundhouse all the way round into a spiining kick or a back thrust, but it seems kind of difficult -.- or if you use the other leg.
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| POSTED BY: Old_Guy on 09/14/2008 07:14:10 |
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Throw the roundhouse with the rear leg. Retract it back to the original position. Throw the back kick (or spin hook, or spin side kick) with the same leg that you used for the roundhouse. And you are absolutely right whether or not I retract it depends on the follow on, which depends on their reaction to the roundhouse. If they eat the roundhouse without moving I'll retract to have the room to throw another kick. If they do a change step and I hit their back instead of the hogu I'll set it down and follow it up with a right cross to the body or push them back and blast away.
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Was that hands up and chin down, or the other way around?
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Old_Guy wrote:
Throw the roundhouse with the rear leg. Retract it back to the original position. Throw the back kick (or spin hook, or spin side kick) with the same leg that you used for the roundhouse. And you are absolutely right whether or not I retract it depends on the follow on, which depends on their reaction to the roundhouse. If they eat the roundhouse without moving I'll retract to have the room to throw another kick. If they do a change step and I hit their back instead of the hogu I'll set it down and follow it up with a right cross to the body or push them back and blast away.
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Uhh I'm not sure if your definition of retract is the same as mine, because what I'm asking about is - the round kick traditionally has a snapping motion of the lower leg when u kick right, so my question is, do you really carry out that snapping motion fully like the traditional kick does, with your lower leg all the way back in BEFORE ur foot touches the ground[whether u set it down or back to original position] or do u just kick, hit the target, then drop it straight down, or pull it straight back [or maybe slightly bent due to natural recoil, bounce off on contact]?
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| POSTED BY: Old_Guy on 09/14/2008 14:35:00 |
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I understand now, we call that rechambering. Chamber, pivot, extend (kick), rechamber, retract. The purpose of that is so that the opponent doesn't catch and hold your leg. Since that is against the WTF rule set It isn't truly necessary. It is pretty handy to be able to rechamber and throw the next kick. Throw the body shot, rechamber, throw the head shot or throw the body shot, rechamber throw the hook to the head. Head shots I almost always rechamber. Body shots not so much it would depend on the next kick and how much I got around with my pivot. If I kick to the head my pivot foot goes all the way around to where my heel is facing the target. Body shots the pivot is somewhere between 60 and 120 degrees and it usually does not get rechambered unless I am kicking again without setting my foot down. Sorry for the confusion.
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Was that hands up and chin down, or the other way around?
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| POSTED BY: doughboy on 09/14/2008 16:27:36 |
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when practicing the kick by itself, you should retract it - not during sparring though, as you said, it slows you down. if you sparr a person who didn't practice retracting the leg after roundhouse kick, you will see why you need to retarct it when practicing the kick. my buddy is a pretty good fighter - he knows the rhythm of the fight, he got good footwork, his punches are fast, and his balance is pretty good. he can kick pretty hard, but whenever he misses, his body swings around with his leg and exposes his back. even if you don't retract it during sparring, from all the practice, you will have more control of your kick even if you missed your target and will be able to bring your leg down without exposing your back.
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umm, somtimes you need to not pull back. but most of the time do it. in the street your feet will be grabed like candy falling form a pinyata.
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@OG - lol I should be the one apologizing for causing it =X Anyway I do rechamber for a second kick, but I surely need to work on my snapping action, it's too slow to create a scoring sound for the 2nd kick.
@doughboy - I see, for the control. Understood.
@everyone -
Oh one more thing. I've this weird habit when doing the roundhouse kick. Usually when you do a, say right roundhouse, your body will be rotating counterclockwise and end up facing the left in one movement right? My weird habit is that, whenever I do a right roundhouse kick, my body tends to rotate left to start off the kick, and during the kick, my body rotates in the opposite direction of the kick[right leg kick = body rotates clockwise]. I don't know why that happens, I think it's probably because I tend to try to keep my upper body from rotating sideways too much, to speeden up my next kick with the opposite leg. I mean like if I actually rotate my body all the way until it faces my left when I kick, it's pretty difficult to get my left leg coming up for the next roundhouse kick as fast[sometimes in class my instructor would slap hand mitts as a "command" for each kick, so sometimes she would find the fastest guy in class, *slap* kick *slap* kick, each slap + kick happens in a second or less, and we do left-right-left-right, but each foot must land first]. So it's like I think I tend to only try to rotate my lower body, i.e. the hips, while my upperbody is kept facing as forward as possible to prepare for the next kick. It's like my upper body is already doing the rotation to fire the next kick [the shoulders etc as in shoulders turn first then hips then legs]. Is this normal or should I change this?
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| POSTED BY: Old_Guy on 09/15/2008 04:56:32 |
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TKDHermit wrote:
So it's like I think I tend to only try to rotate my lower body, i.e. the hips, while my upperbody is kept facing as forward as possible to prepare for the next kick. It's like my upper body is already doing the rotation to fire the next kick [the shoulders etc as in shoulders turn first then hips then legs]. Is this normal or should I change this?
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I've been trying to get that motion down for the last year or so. Coach Ruiz callls it counter torque. I over rotate when we do Muay Thai and this counter torque is used to generate more powerful kick (no snap or chamber roundhouse). After a year or so I am just starting to crack the code on this. Other aspects came more easy, like the punches, elbows, and to a degree knee strikes, but this style of kicking with the counter torque has eluded me. I can't believe that it just comes natural to you...I'm definately envious
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