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Proud Parent

season wrote: I understand that sparring is a necessary tool for training in the martial arts. According to my recent poll, all the users on TKDspace agree that technique is more important than power. Should sparring be utilized as a brawl between students? If a student can't control their kicks and often abuses other student's - and admits with each mistake that their are "just kicking", should they be allowed to spar other student's? Isn't it more important for each student to learn from each other and practice controlling techniques than to pretend it is a "real" match? Do you think it is okay for student's to injure each other on a weekly basis?

Sounds like you already know the answers to the questions.

No control...no sparring

Sparring is not a fight and should never get reduced to a brawl...where is your instructor while students are just flailing away on each other?  Lastly it is never okay to injure each other...ever.  If it was we wouldn't stop when they tap. 

There was another forum or blog where they talked about, "if you break your toys, you can't play", referring to sparring.  See if you can dig it up there was some great info in there. 

I just started another forum loosely based on the same concerns, check it out.

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Was that hands up and chin down, or the other way around?

I agree.  If students cant control themselves they should not be aloud to spar.  let alone take class.  i know im being strict, but if they are passionate about TKD as much as they say they better get control. 

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Viva Naruto!!!

With technique come powers

Proper technique will provide more power, but I don't think that that is where Season was going.  I think the post is asking about whether sparring should be about improving technique or about students overpowering one another.

Should each time you spar with a partner be treated as if it were an actual match?  No.  Should you consider what the repercussions would be in a real match or an actual fight?  Absolutely. 

But no, students should not be going home with injuries every time they spar, particularly if it is a WTF school where hogu is worn.  If a hogu wearing class is experiencing regular sparring inuries, then the class as a whole needs to focus on control.

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교사 Yidan kumdo, Ildan taekwondo

In my limited experience... 

I was sparring last night with a gentleman way senior in rank and ability...technique.  I am stronger, but he was able to put his fist/foot on the target and stop as pressure was applied.  he was able to get there quickly but had the control to not hurt me too much.  Yes I felt the kick and punch and it slowed me and stopped me, but I am fine today, just a little sore.

From my side,  my limited TKD experience and history of playing Hockey and Rugby allowed me to be strong enough to consistently find the target, but i had issues with pulling the kick and combination as they landed and hit him harder than i intended.

Then I found my self hesitating;  and hesitation will get you killed, well knocked on your rear in class.
 
This fighting for fun is a new concept for me.  Ive only lost once a long long time ago, i did not like it at all, i was beaten badly  by a guy that had at least a foot height advantage after being knocked out with one well placed sucker punch as i walked out of a restroom stall.


sparring is necessary, but it needs to be in a controlled enviornment, not 12 groups free sparring, Unless they both know what they are doing...

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Still Runs with Scissors

I am w/ most everyone else here  Technique over power.

Dealing w/ the issue you raise about students always getting injured is another issue to deal with.  Sparring, if for a tournament or competition, should be about perfecting techiniques.  Defense, counters, attacks, combinations, movement.  If a student can make effective use of what I just wrote, then a student merely needs to score.  Sparring for tournaments IS NOT ABOUT SELF DEFENSE!  Now, if you can knock an opponent out in a tournament, or hit them hard enough to make them stop, go for it.  But in school is not a place to maim and injure.  We know it happens and most of us have had injuries from training.  Most of my injuries come from me rolling my toes up on the mat! 

Old-Guy is right, no control=no sparring.  Period!  One of my old instructors in Karate had a great way of dealing w/ students that were constantly pounding other students.  He would spar them full contact.  Now none of us wore protective gear back then but my Sensei would pull punches and kicks when we would spar him.  Unless you were hurting other students.  Then, Sensei would mop the floor w/ you! 

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Old enough to know better; Dumb enough to keep going!

Asterix wrote: With technique come powers

and with power comes great responsobility

okay spidey

Ask any boxing instructor and if he knows his butt from his boxing gloves, he'll tell you the same thing...

"If you don't have technique, you don't have power.  You can't MUSCLE good shots... you'll wear yourself out and your opponent will still be standing with his guns ready to pound you into mush, if he's got any technique at ALL."

I've always hit hard. 

My boxing trainer is a former local pro, who was WELL known in our area as a knockout artist.  He trained and worked around the likes of Aaron Pryor, Joe Frazier, Tony Tubbs... you name the fighter, he's probably spent time around them... and he HAS worked championship fights as a chief second.

It was like my 4th week, and he had me working on the heavy bag with him, to work on my technique. 

I was hitting that bag with some SERIOUS pop.  (I'm a black belt... I'd BETTER be able to hit that sucker with some pop by now after years worth of training!)

He commented, "Man... you hit HARD!!!  But you're not hitting it RIGHT... you're muscling it in.  Here... lemme show you....  you see... you shift your weight... foot to foot... you start off 50/50 and as the shot fires, you shift your weight to 95 on the opposite leg of the hand you're hitting with and 5 percent on your back leg.  If you've thrown your shot right and hold it right there and freeze at impact, you should be able to pick the foot on the same side as your punching hand, UP, without ANY loss of balance."

He then said, "If you can do that... hey... you can already knock out a heavyweight with your punches... if you get the balance shift right and relax those arms just a little... you're going to hit fast, and you're gonna be knocking guys out with no problem.  I mean it son... you hit hard already... DO IT RIGHT, and you'll hit like a ton of bricks."

You know something?

The man nailed it on the head... because once I got his instructions from my pea-brain into my body and started throwing the shots right... I went from nailing that bag to absolutely BOMBING it... and that increase in power I enjoyed, came with LESS effort than I was using previously.

That's with ANY sport.  A Nolan Ryan fast ball, isn't a matter of Nolan muscling it... he's got EXCELLENT body mechanics and excellent balance.  His technique is flawless... that's why even today he can still hurl fastballs that are nightmares to hit.  Same thing with football...  Brett Farve... that guy could chuck that football a TON of distance and be accurate with it... and he does it with proper technique... not just muscle.

Taekwondo is absolutely NO different... if you don't have balance... you either have an E-ticket to the ground when you fall on your tail... or you have a recipie to lose your balance and get knocked out or caught unprepared when your opponent throws something that just hits... it don't even have to hit hard to knock you down if you're off balance.

And being off balance also means... your power goes right into the toilet.

So YES... technique is absolutely the mother of power.  If your technique sucks... you've got a major league problem on your hands that needs a lot of careful work to overcome.  Muscle just is no substitute for that.

If you've got technique... even if you hit like an infant... long as you've got technique... you're still going to get the most 'bang' for your buck when you launch... and that's the name of the fight game... get the MOST done to the good... with the LEAST amount of risk and effort.

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Getting through life takes just a LITTLE bit of insanity!*g*