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TAE KWON DO FOREVER

Could it be that the state organization you were trying to become a member of only recognizes credentials from other recognized organizations.  Kukkiwan certifications are accepted world wide, I'm not saying that their members are anymore proficient than any other organization but their certifications hold a recognizable credential that other organizations may not posess.  For example how many organizations are there out there that will give you a BB and a cert with it just because you sent them the money and say "Sure I'm this and that".  I've seen it BB magazine where you can get a BB in American kempo for $1200.  For that matter an instructor could make up his own certs send them to a organization for some sort of validation, learn to tie their belt, open their own school and away you go.  I'm definately not saying that Kukkiwon is or should be the be all end all but I would like to see one governing body world wide for each art.  One place in Korea where you could check the validity of an instructors credentials for TKD, One place in Okinawa to check the validity of a Karate instructors credentials, etc, etc.  Sure would make it simple, and I like simple...your instructor either did or did not put in the time and training and is recognized as qualified by a world body to teach and promote or they are not.  This would truly end unscrupulous and unqualified instructors from taking advantage of the unsuspecting public.  Naturally this would end any problems you were having getting into the state organization as well.  We see a lot of it here at Yongsan, BBs come in having been told that they have a Kukkiwon cert or a cert that is recognized by Kukkiwon and when it comes time to test for their third or fourth degree find out that they may indeed have a certification but that it isn't recognized by Kukkiwon and the best that they can do is to test for their 1st degree.  It is a shame and I'm sure on some level criminal.  Thats my .02, and I hope everything works out for you.

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Student of the Zero Chamber Power Kick

Old_Guy wrote: Kukkiwan certifications are accepted world wide, I'm not saying that their members are anymore proficient than any other organization but their certifications hold a recognizable credential that other organizations may not posess.

Whats to prevent an unscrupulous teachers from sending in an application for a Dan cert from someone that wasn't qualified?
That would be the same as the one who makes up their own cert or the org that just sells it without any true qualification.

TK-D wrote: Whats to prevent an unscrupulous teachers from sending in an application for a Dan cert from someone that wasn't qualified? That would be the same as the one who makes up their own cert or the org that just sells it without any true qualification.

i agree.  out of all the black belt testings done throughout the world, i wonder just how many actually failed.  i'm assuming that the number would be very insiginificant compared to those who passed. 

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i'm delicious

doughboy wrote: [quote="TK-D"]i agree.  out of all the black belt testings done throughout the world, i wonder just how many actually failed.  i'm assuming that the number would be very insiginificant compared to those who passed.

Well said there doughboy. Agreed!

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Old enough to know better; Dumb enough to keep going!

same here.

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Viva Naruto!!!

I think that Old Guy hit the nail on the head when he said, "recognizable credential", which is a very different matter from the quality of the credential, whatever it may be.

Daniel

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교사 Yidan kumdo, Ildan taekwondo

[quote="
Whats to prevent an unscrupulous teachers from sending in an application for a Dan cert from someone that wasn't qualified?
That would be the same as the one who makes up their own cert or the org that just sells it without any true qualification.[/quote]

What I've seen from unscrupulous teachers more often is taking the money (a goodly sum at that) & then either NOT sending it in to the KKW & claiming "it must be lost" or producing a phoney cert. & pocketing most of the $$. Sadly this, rather than giving out the "goods" to folks that don't deserve it happens much more often.

Although, I know of a story of a guy who just paid a GM an outrageous sum of money for KKW certs with no test. The story goes that he owns his own school (& holds a 3rd Dan) but has never been in a real TKD class.

"What I've seen from unscrupulous teachers more often is taking the money (a goodly sum at that) & then either NOT sending it in to the KKW & claiming "it must be lost" or producing a phoney cert. & pocketing most of the $$. Sadly this, rather than giving out the "goods" to folks that don't deserve it happens much more often."

I would like to think that this occurs when the instructor is not really qualified through Kukkiwon to promote students (4th dan or higher).  It would be really sad if they were able to do it and then just decided to pocket the $70 it takes to register a promotion and get the certification.  Wasn't it you or Sarge that was telling me about the magic plane ride where everyone got on the plane in Seoul as 2nd degree BBs and when it landed in the U.S. they were all 6th and 7th Dan.  I guess KKW doesn't believe in magic.  So what can they do either create their  own organization and declare themselves the Grand PooBah or find an organization and tell them that "I have been studying for umpteen years, have my own school with XXX students and feel like I should be (fill in the blank) Dan and I'll be promoting all my students through your organization.  They say we agree!!  Write the check, frame your new cert, slap on a new belt and press on.  Which is fine as long as your students know what they are and what they are not getting through the school and/or organization.  You can't go this route and tell them that their promotions are through Kukkiwon, are recognized by Kukkiwon, or are accepted world wide just like a Kukkiwon cert.  It is there where things go astray.  What do we get with the KKW certification anyway...credibility (to a degree) and the ability to compete in the Olympics.  Are there tournaments, competitions, or something along those lines that would turn you down without it?  I do know that Master Suan started students out from the beginning because their certs weren't from Kukkiwon and they knew none of the WTF forms but they caught on quick and moved quickly through the ranks, GM Kim allows them to keep what ever rank they say they have (after 40 years he can tell who is and who isn't what they say) and will test them to BB at KKW as soon as they learn the forms and demonstrate the techniques.  Both of these options IMHO are sound.

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Student of the Zero Chamber Power Kick