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i just want to know what you experienced instructors would do if one of your students repeatably hurt others in class. for example A lil boy kick two students in the face intentionally.
or a yellow belt adult male in his mid 30s kick a teenage black belt girl as hard as he could with a back kick sending her in air? how about a blue belt kid that gets mad at a another student of the same age and knife strikes that student in the neck over losing a video game. just want to know. Cause i more than know what i would do.
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TAE KWON DO FOREVER
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| POSTED BY: Old_Guy on 08/08/2008 06:52:08 |
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We had a new student 2nd degree BB, 19, 20 yrs old. Very fast very powerful. He had a back kick that seem to just materialize out of nowhere and his timing was perfect. I had only been doing TKD about a year I was 44. It was the only time that I can ever remember being angry while doing TKD as this young man literally used me for target practice during one of our sparring nights. Must have knocked me off my feet a half a dozen times. I was embarrassed to say the least and was really glad as Master Suan called for everyone to change partners. I moved on to someone else as he moved onto a new BB 17 yrs old 6 foot 3 maybe weighed 140 lbs. As well all started this new BB takes a back kick that just folded him in half and left him curled on the ground gasping for air. Master Suan saw to it the he made it to the bench and wasn't seriously injured and then told the 2nd dgree that since he didn't have a partner that he would spar with him. The 2nd degree seemed to be out to prove a point and came on with everything that he had. The next thing I see is his skip tornado round house being countered by a back kick that launched him off the floor and into the bleachers. Master Suan helped him out of the bleachers and had a few words with him and that was it. Anytime it looked like he was strong arming another student he always seemed to end up sparring Master Suan and subsequently doubled over.
Its a shame really, with his skill and quickness we could have learned a lot from him, yet his attitude and disposition made him really hard to deal with. I always thought that Master Suan did a great job keeping egos in check and the safety of his students in the forefront. BTW the young man was eventually drummed out of the Air Force (our class was at Kadena Air Base Okinawa) no one was surprised but still it was regrettable. but showed that his behavior in class mirrored what was going on out of the dojang.
I would like to think that I would have the same patience and restraint that Master Suan showed as well as skillset to teach a hard lesson to those who needed a bit more physical persuasion.
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Was that hands up and chin down, or the other way around?
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| POSTED BY: IcemanSK on 08/08/2008 08:48:30 |
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I've heard stories like that & had a Korean instructor who would kick round an unruly/rude/ disrespectful/ mean Korean student around the dojang nearly every night to get him to understand. While I always thought it was appropriate often, it doesn't work in American society. We are just too letigious (happy to sue) in the US (& many wouldn't get the message of their own medicine) to do that anymore.
My Korean master had a younger Korean master he was going to sell the school to. (I only metion nationality to note connection & implied understanding) The yonger master was sparring with our world-rated BB's before class. One cheap shot after another from Both men & they were at each other's throats. My master threw BOTH of them out of the dojang for good.
I have a saying with my students (kids mostly) about working with a partner in class: "if you break your friend, you'll have no one to play with." True enough that some folks (adults & kids) on't respect themselves let alone training partners. Those folks need to taked to at the point of the intentional incident. If it's done again, show them the door.
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Our school, like Iceman stated, has the rule "If you break your partner, you don't get another one."
Accidents happen and experienced instructors know the difference. In my very first MA class, I watched as the instructor "beat", and I do mean beat, his roommate just for selling the school by using the word "fight" instead of sparring. I learned very quickly what was appropriate and what was not.
If a student is incapable of of control, that student should be removed from sparring until he is capable of showing restraint.
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Old enough to know better; Dumb enough to keep going!
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firemanandxmarine wrote:
i just want to know what you experienced instructors would do if one of your students repeatably hurt others in class.
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For me, it is the same for all students, male or female, all ages, all ranks. I tell the students what amount of contact is permitted depending on the rank, age, and ability of who they are sparring, and what safety equipment is being used, then I tell them what the punishment is for failing to exercise proper control. Accidental, excessive contact will get a verbal warning and/or 10 push-ups. Repeated accidental contact will result in 20 to 50 push-ups, and a stern lecture that will leave most grown men regretting their actions. Intentional, excessive contact is a different matter. This is poor attitude with a disregard for obeying rules, and disrespect to the instructor. I will verbally reprimand a student ten times as harsh as the earlier mentioned stern lecture, then drop them for a minimum of 50 push-ups. The student will apologize to the person they assaulted, and be subject to a possible reduction of rank, probation from promotions for the next test, or up to one year (indefinitely, if it persists). I will tell the entire class that I will drop a Black Belt back down to white belt if they intentionally disregard my rules for contact. I don't typically threaten students with physical force, or take them on in an aggressive match to prove a point. My students know that going one-on-one with me can be dangerous if they push it too far, and I always keep them wondering exactly what I'm capable of. I do preventative teaching where I head these things off before they happen. Whenever I discuss sparring with my students, I explain why exercising control is important, not only for safety, but for improving your skills. Anyone can hit an object, but it takes a real expert to throw a full power technique, and stop it with minimum contact - - that requires skill. However, I always tell them that if any student gets out of control, I would be more than happy to go hard contact, beyond Black Belt level. I tell them that they do not want to go "Full Contact" with me, because full contact kills people (at least the way I do it!) 
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firemanandxmarine wrote:
how about a blue belt kid that gets mad at a another student of the same age and knife strikes that student in the neck over losing a video game.
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This one is a whole other issue. This is not going too far with contact rules during sparring. This is a misuse of Taekwondo. Students who behave like this are automatically put on probation for a period commensurate with the specifics of the incident, and I hold a private conference with them (parents included for children). The student will be required to right a 500 word essay as to why this kind of behavior is not appropriate. I also take time to reach this student on a deeper level, find out what influences have led them to believe that hitting out of anger is ok, and then I teach them better alternatives through a more phsychological approach to teaching. If all else fails, the student is restricted from learning any new skills, and must spend every class doing sets of push-ups, cleaning the Dojang, and showing displays of courtesy and respect to all students and instructors. I don't kick students out of my school, but I can make their lessons very tough until they change their attitude and behavior, or quit. I don't strive to make them quit, as I would rather succeed at improving their character. Chief Master Eisenhart |
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this happen in my class room a grown man hit a tenage girl with all he had. I was so upset i could not see straight. I calmed my sprit and let it ride, this guy was 220 something lbs and had three kids. i should ot have matched them up. i was thinking that he would hold his self back being a man as well as a color belt. i set him down with out a world said. i had the whole calls spare each other leaving him seated. then at the end i called him to spare me. he came with some powerful attacks but ya know they where easily avoided with out contact. until he punched me full power in the face, keep in mind friends where are using wtf rules. the next thing i know i saw him fall. I have dads that bring there kids, hey are told to let me know if they see anything out of line. one dad came to me and said master sam....i could see the look in his eyes where horror he continued his report there is blood all over the floor. yelp i split that guys wig. round house kick straight out of my night mares. I'm not proud of it... but that guy never hurt another sole. i did some research with his old master. come to find out he always hurt others in his former school did not give a dang who they where. the kid that hit fellow student with the knife hand was horrific i was just a color belt. my master was sooooo man. he made that kid take off his blue belt he was a wht belt forever. that same lil boy always made me do push ups i was a young man then in my last teens. that sucked but with him as a white belt i got my black belt before him. the kid that kicked two students in the face at different kids was under my watch. he walked up to my son sammy and kicked him full power while he was seated talking to me. i was pisssed. so mad i did not say a thing but thats not right. i was ready to pop.... i witnessed my son bleeding form his lil face. i was so mad i can tell you it took all my self control not to explode. also i told my son he should have anticipated the attacked or made hi reflexes faster to stop it. a mouth or two latter that same student kicked a lil boy in the face. i told him not to do it again and he had do push ups. that same day he kicked a lil girl as hard as he cold sent her to the floor. i instructed ,my skilled students to let him know how it feels like. no one would do what asked i had asked two good students. they did no want to hurt him. well i spared him and kicked him in the hogo sending in in the air. Before you get mad i knew just how much to hit him and where to not hurt him.we work out on tick pads at all times. he got up laughing and smiling talking about "how do yo make me fly across the room!" i told him this was not a game. i asked him why would i do something like that to him. he said. "because i hurt people" he has not ever did this again. some may not like what i did but i have one thing to say. every student after a month of my training can kick hard. i cant have them using there skill for evil. one thing is i knew the mother very well. and i knew she would not abject to this. in my dads school punking other students was not even thought of being tolerated. My daddy broke lots of guy under direction of his master for guys that came in off the street to hurt students. those guys left or became honorable men of my dads master teaching. that master i model my self after master Thompson. a man who walked on stills like Forrest gump before the girl told him to run.
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TAE KWON DO FOREVER
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WOW, that is crazy. I've never lost control of my anger since joining TKD but there were some trying times. One was at a self-defense siminar lead by a Kempo instructor. He and I knew each other but he wanted to show pressure points and placed a house key against my ear and pulled resulting into a nasty cut and infection. He knew that I've had part of ears ripped from head so the nerves are right. My instructor has appoglized several times not saying anything after it happened or leaving but she was shocked as were a lot of people that he did that. About the only thing that kept me from going into overdrive was the fact that I was in a wrestling room were I picked up serveral blood born deseases before and I didn't want to spread any more and that I didn't want to make the art look bad in public. I now avoid any association with the instructor and his school(some of my friends there don't hold it against me). In my prior years I was known as hothead and once suplexed a ref after a match because of botched calls before running out of the gym knocking a door into a trophy case. I had to do anger mangement sessions (which did help) also I had a lot of deprogramming to go through. I wonder if any other places have screening of students? I know that some McDojangs will take anyone just because of the money. But my instructor got to know me a little bit before asking me to enroll.
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Exwrestler turned Martial Artist
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| POSTED BY: Old_Guy on 08/08/2008 17:28:06 |
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narcsarge wrote:
Our school, like Iceman stated, has the rule "If you break your partner, you don't get another one."
Accidents happen and experienced instructors know the difference. In my very first MA class, I watched as the instructor "beat", and I do mean beat, his roommate just for selling the school by using the word "fight" instead of sparring. I learned very quickly what was appropriate and what was not.
If a student is incapable of of control, that student should be removed from sparring until he is capable of showing restraint.
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I hear that from Coach Ruiz when we do Muay Thai, I'll actually stop the press and slide away for a moment when I feel myself getting caught up in the fight as opposed to the match. He's told me as a training method to fight my opponents technique as opposed to fighting the fighter. I like the idea of removing them from sparring until they can show restraint, all things considered that is probably the best course of action. On nights where everyone spars are your students paired up by weight, age, belt level, or is it just everybody grab a partner?
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Was that hands up and chin down, or the other way around?
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We try very hard to keep the belts grouped together. + or - a grade either way. Sometimes, it just isn't possible. We also try very hard to keep height and weight similiar but, again, not always possible.
That being said, we do occasionaly pair smaller opponents against larger opponents because most competitors will run into a mismatch sooner or later. No sense in training if it isn't going to cover real situations. Even though I may be a brown belt, I train w/ Dan grades. I am also training w/ teens and women. When I do train w/ lower ranks I NEVER, try to hurt them. I merely try to point out openings w/ my techniques. I want them to thing of me as a moving heavy bag that will, if given an opportunity, strike an open target. But I know how to pull my strikes. I feel, as an upper belt, a responsibility to help my opponent improve. Not to make them look foolish.
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Old enough to know better; Dumb enough to keep going!
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oh man dont get me wrong. I spare all my students and none of then get hurt. they get mad because they cant hit me sometimes. i want them to know when they hit me the have done well. well i slip up once a year hit some one to hard because they move into mt miss calculation.but they not hurt crying. I always did what my master did. he would spare half a inch higher then you fought. I have beyond excellent control, i can run jump in the air kick some one in the head with a cup their head full. of water and it want spill. it would look like i kicked you for real on my end i find it harder to fight someone and not hurt them then fight some one my caliber. i mean speed up the slow down for minimum contact. this is harder then just fighting. thats why i like sparing the students. but i have to say after my students get to a caliber of fighting i let them be. especially if the have some their same caliber to work with. ha i call them twins. I don't bully my students; i count them as gifts. But tough love is some time in order but when blood has been drawn two times and you pay no remorse or empathy, an "smile" whipping or serious punishment is in order. if a see no light in you ill ask you to leave i wont even bother. my school you have to have control. my black belts and red belts have to fight mutable opponents one can be little kid the rest can be grow men. full power on the guys but the kid has to be tapped lightly. well i'm off
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TAE KWON DO FOREVER
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