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Total Views: 199 - Total Replies: 20

POSTED BY: season on 07/31/2008 14:01:45


What do you do when someone is claiming to be a master but you know his certificate is fake and none of his accomplishment claims are true?

Is there a regulation "board" for this type of thing? I think it is unfair to the rest of us who train in martial arts with reputable people and abiding by codes of ethics and practicing good values to have a loser ruin our reputations!

Any advice is welcome.

I really want to expose this guy and warn others but am not sure what to do.





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Proud Parent




POSTED BY: IcemanSK on 07/31/2008 17:56:43


I've been in a situation like that. The instructor I trained under for a number of years who said he was state director for the ITF. We all discovered that he wasn't even recognized by the ITF when his wife divorced him...& it all came out. I found out at the same time when I went to a 9th Dan Kukkiwon with my bogus 2nd Dan cert. in hand & he laughed me out of his office. Thankfully, the real ITF folks were understanding & took in many of our students.

There really isn't a regulation board in the US. Sadly, this type of thing is more widespread than one would think. My suggestion...run, don't walk away from that school & find another. Kukkiwon certs can be checked online if you know 1) the person's name. 2) Country of origin. 3) date of birth.
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POSTED BY: doughboy on 07/31/2008 19:44:32


if, and only if, you have a hard evidence that he is bogus, then i think people can sue him.  take it to judge judy.  she'll knock this one out of the park within 30 minutes including the commercials. 





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i'm delicious
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POSTED BY: Baby_Huey on 07/31/2008 21:31:15


I agree with Iceman. The school I go to has a black belt board that keeps harmony among the sister schools and you have to apply to get permission to open a school under the Jung's name. 

Sadly anyone can open a school and call themselves a "grand master" and have a certificate and look nice with being able to order uniforms and black belts online.  Most people don't know to look at schools affilations and check stuff online first. 





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Exwrestler turned Martial Artist
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POSTED BY: major3rd on 08/01/2008 08:35:48


You sound like you feel pretty righteous; be careful.  Most of my poor judgements in life were made in the midst of those feelings.  Patience, please.

First, find out which organization this person claimed to be part of on the certificate.  If it's a large organization like WTF or ITF, then you'd want to make them aware of it (as was mentioned earlier).  If he created an organization and called himself grand poo-bah of it, then you have little recourse on this end of it.  The capacity to make new organizations, styles, and claims allows for the knuckleheads of martial arts, but it also allows for growth and evolution.  Maybe his school is a failed genetic mutation... nature eventually catches those.

Second, find yourself another organization to work with that's more fitting to what you're hoping to do.  If there is a bunch of you, then try to move together.  I'm sure there are a lot of schools that would love to have a pack of new students eager to work hard with someone that earns their trust.  Don't underestimate the power of your own attention in this regard; schools are there to teach.  A good school is eager to work with a good student.  Be a good student!

Third, recognize the truth of it; if you do nothing, then this person is probably going to hang himself the same way he's ruined his relationship with you.  Take it from a guy that hang to work with a real jerk for a decade - it does catch up eventually.  The old school I trained at is laughable now - not because he didn't know his stuff, but because he had... *ahem* moral and ethical issues.  It's simply a matter of the chickens coming home to roost for people like that.  And take heart, they always do... it may take a little while, but they always do.  I'm watching it with this joker now. 

Along those same lines, don't act harshly.  If you find another great school, then tell people about it and support it.  Keep your energy there since there's enough negativity floating around the world to keep everyone miserable for millions of years.  Through negation, the rotten ones will fall off the tree.  So let this sucker hang himself and you move on to greener pastures.

Best of luck to you.




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Pajamas and a Belt
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POSTED BY: CelticTiger on 08/01/2008 10:33:38



season wrote:

What do you do when someone is claiming to be a master but you know his certificate is fake and none of his accomplishment claims are true?

Is there a regulation "board" for this type of thing? I think it is unfair to the rest of us who train in martial arts with reputable people and abiding by codes of ethics and practicing good values to have a loser ruin our reputations!

Any advice is welcome.

I really want to expose this guy and warn others but am not sure what to do.


I don't mean to diminish the severity of anyone lying about their credentials, but I do have some questions: 

What is he like as an instructor?  Is he a good teacher in every other way who made the poor decision to inflate his credentials in order to be competative in the local market?

What organization is he claiming to be a master in?  What accomplishments has he faked?  Is he the head of his own organization or simply unaffiliated; if that is the case, he can give himself any title that he wishes.

Lastly, how did you find out that his credentials were faked?  If it's hearsay, gather all the facts before exposing him and warning others.  The hearsay may be correct, but it is always good to make sure, because frequently, hearsay is either outright wrong, or is correct, but missing important details that change the big picture.   

I'm not question the truth of what you say; just trying to get more specifics to provide you a better answer.

Best wishes,

Daniel




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교사 Yidan kumdo, Ildan taekwondo
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POSTED BY: season on 08/01/2008 19:44:11


I just want to clarify to all that it is NOT my master that I am talking about.

This guy is the owner of a school where they teach mixed martial arts for cage fighting and such. It just so happens that there is a 16 page forum posting about the various fraud schemes this man has pursued and I know who he is.  I know he claims to be a master but he has no accredidation that I have seen.

I just wondered what your thoughts were on the question of if I should mind my own business or not.

 





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POSTED BY: firemanandxmarine on 08/01/2008 19:44:11


It sometimes hard to take down a person that has such a large following. However, it can be done.  The best thing to do is not act in retaliation and with emotion.   Remember my student; The pin is just as mighty as the sword. The same can be made about the keyboards in our time.  Take your time and sit back and watch. The ancient texts speak of what ever is done in the dark shall be brought into the light.

A real martial arts Master has been groomed from his/her grandmaster to be a great leader. You can tell a leader from follower. You can tell by watching them train and teach. Look how other masters Act and take note. Use the internet to see what other masters or doing all over the world. Take note in how he or she moves and interact with others in the world around them. 

Different masters act different ways.  Look at the certification that they claim or have.  If possible talk to other masters around the city that the master is around. Be very careful in people that make the own styles with out Traditional advancements in other Traditional styles. Look at the age of the master a master has to be at least 30 years old or close to it by a few years. Sometimes like in my case, I was awarded my rank earlier because of my championships and former military service and advance trading over seas.     A master has to be at least 5th Dan over seas or 4th Dan in USA.  Ask who is the Masters Grandmaster?  Who did the grand master he trains from? All masters will gladly/proudly  tell you there lineage.  

Some masters have a large certificate that Says master. Others do not they certificate displayed openly.  Check the internet WTF or Kukkiwon registered black belts have there information open to the public   http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/index.jsp  . At the bottom they will have check  poom or dan. You will need the master’s birthday and full name that was submitted to the kukkiwon.  

 

Most Masters modern masters blind in with the public. Most masters don’t drink or smoke.  The are fit or if not can move as if they or fit.  They all are able to move faster. Or slow but with the end result victory.  They have good gross and fine motor skills. They easily beat black belts. They are kind and relaxed.  Most of all they don’t use martial skill in danger but metal skill. Most masters or spiritual. They do mediate.   Most Masters are always learning and striving to improve themselves and people around them. 

Masters make black belts.  They should have black belts they have promoted.  Masters hang around other masters. Why cause its get lonely sometimes. And it Is the bomb to beat up on your students and far too easy. It’s better to have a master you can train with and can aid in bettering there skills. Master have other great people following them. Men, older sometimes younger that train or learn form him/her.  Masters have taught. To be a master you have had to have demonstrated how to learn and how to teach and teach others to do the same. 

 

Masters are charged with helping others spiritually mentality and physically.  They always want to help others as well as protect others.  Masters or mentors.  I can call my master and grandmaster any time day or night with important problem. Most masters have common sense and wisdom and the ability to be political.

A good master thinks of his/her school and strives to be honor to their country and is a over all roll model. 

 

Master Samuel T. Robertson IV






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TAE KWON DO FOREVER
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POSTED BY: CelticTiger on 08/01/2008 21:38:07



season wrote:

I just want to clarify to all that it is NOT my master that I am talking about.

This guy is the owner of a school where they teach mixed martial arts for cage fighting and such. It just so happens that there is a 16 page forum posting about the various fraud schemes this man has pursued and I know who he is.  I know he claims to be a master but he has no accredidation that I have seen.

I just wondered what your thoughts were on the question of if I should mind my own business or not.

 


Be very careful in going forward if this internet thread is the only thing you have to go on.  The thread may be a red flag, but if thats all that you have to go on, you'll need more to expose him.  And even if you have other sources, if you cannot make a solid case, he can potentially come back at you and sue you for libel.  Not trying to be negative; just thought I'd mention that dishonest men frequently use the court system against those who try to show them for what they really are.

Having said that, if he's defrauding people or if he is criminally negligent regarding his students, then you have a responsibility to do what you can if you have the knowledge.  If you happen to have a link to the thread, I would be interested in reading it.

Best wishes,

Daniel





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교사 Yidan kumdo, Ildan taekwondo
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POSTED BY: firemanandxmarine on 08/01/2008 23:16:55


Also id likes to add that masters are very of wise of the human body. So wise they have physician like qualities.  





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