Not at all Andre, excellent comments.

In short, if I'm reading you correctly, what you're basically saying, is that whole heart of this matter, is CHARACTER...  building someone's character, so they are a success IN the do-jang, as well as outside of it in the real world, via their own right thinking, their own right attitude, their own right effort, and their own right way of viewing the world, with a sturdy moral compass that enables them to do right by other people.

That to me... is the main goal of the art, and I believe General Choi has even put it that way... "The art of LIFE".

I don't find that in 'cloth'.   I find that in the people.  If I canned all the belts totally... just stopped awarding or wearing any... I think I could accomplish that mission and do it very well.  The belt is just cloth, it always has been, and always will be.

But properly taught and learned, Taekwondo can and does change lives for the better.  When I say a black belt doesn't/shouldn't mean squat, that is precisely what I mean.

It's not in the belt... it's in what you put into learning and growing on all fronts, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, etc...  

IF someone has dedicated themselves properly... they can't help but to succeed, in attaining this learning... this growth... and it follows that somewhere along that path, they're going to find black around their waist.

But without all that growth and learning?  The belt they have on just doesn't matter.  They're going to be much less than they could be.

That is what I mean, when I say that hunk of cloth and that fancy paper doesn't mean a thing.

So while you and I might speak the sentiment differently... I think you and I are very much on the same page, as to what this art's about, and what it means to EARN and then BE the black belt... rather than just testing up and tying one on.

Being a black belt and wearing one, are not always one and the same thing.;)

Great to hear from you!:)  

Take care!

Paul 

Agreed.  In our school, we have a saying:  You don't earn rank, rank earns you.

You'll promote when you are ready.  The belt color is nothing more than a visual progress indicator of how close you are to achieving your goals.

As far as age goes....I gotta say that I am not in favor of single digit midget Black Belts.  That's based simply on the learning development of children.  Being a Black Belt is not jus tpunching and kicking.  There are life skills involved and small kids just aren't able to really start comprehending them until around age 6.  When they get up around 10, they've had several years of learning about those life skills and have started to internalize them.

My $0.02 worth. 

Ranks at my school

I am a fan of the rule about being 15 to earn your first black belt, by the WTF, and about how you need to wait a year per stripe on your belt until you can test for 2nd dan, a two year wait before you can test for 3rd dan and so forth.

At 15 years old you are almost full grown, you are developing your integrity, and character as by that age is when you start making your own decisions and so forth. You are not as mentally and emotionally mature as you will be at that point, however you are getting there.

In a Shaolin Kempo School I trained at you had to be 18 years of for a 1st dan.  By that point it is "believed" that you are completely physically, mentally, and emotionally matured by that point. 

There is more to being a black belt then knowing diffrent techniques, forms, being able to break and so forth.  Having a "black belt" in any style is a huge honor and there is a huge differance between "having a black belt" and "Being a black belt".  Anyone can have a black belt, just take $5 to your local martial art store and pick one up for yourself, but being a black belt takes on much more responcibility.  My Taekwondo instructer makes comments about how in TKD I am a red belt, however since I was a white belt he was able to see that I was a black belt in another style simply by the way I acted and how I was willing to help keep others motivated.  Now if I can finally lock down that jumping spinning hook, heel and creasent combination I would feel much better off with my chances of pretesting in Feb for my TKD black belt.  The funny part that shortly after I test for Danbo in Taekwondo I need to visit Las Vegas and recertify for my 3rd dan.  (I think this will be the last time I recertify because the odds of me leaving Taekwondo at this point are slim and the 8 hour belt testing for Shaolin Kempo are not what they once were for me.

hi,

seriously is some body thinkin that a 14 or 15 years kid can wear a black belt, if there is a poom belt it's specially to encourage the kids in their martial way, it's one of the most important principles of pedagogy, it means that :

" hey son, you are not yet as  effective as an older fighter but because you made all that work, you are won this special rank "

AT the school I attend we have white, yellow, green, blue, red, and black.  The color belts do have tips for inbetween belt, with the red level having 2 tips. 

For the actual topic at hand I am glad that there is a rule of 15 to be recognized by the WTF.  At 15 you are starting to come to your own and have a better understanding of the world, your body and so forth.  In many ways the person you were then has a huge impact on the person you will become.  Yes at that age you still mess up, but even at 30 I still have poor decisions from time to time.

We have the same structure, Hannigan.  Same colors in fact.

One thing about fifteen is that generally, the student is old enough to endure the adult blackbelt test without undue stress on joints and connective tissue.  It is also old enough that the student could potentially handle themselves in an SD scenario against an adult assailant.

Daniel