Ranger1100ky,

Great to hear some more news.  I hope that if you do open a school in Kentucky, it is successful and has tons of students.


I read it clearly now what system it is that you're describing: You are from the ATA system, having learned 21 (!!!!) forms before General Choi added new patterns in the 70s/80s. (?).  Is there any chance those forms you omitted are going to be picked up by you when you train with your WTF friend?

Awesome, so  you may open your own school of Taekwondo for economic reasons, making it distinctly different from your much respected ATA!  That's exciting news.  Will you by chance incorporate boxing technique into it?

I hope you offer a website with Distance Learning-Correspondence to boot! 

On a side note: My home training is as you might have read:
• resistance training to help maintain health and wellness as I age. 
• As well as what I remember from WTF Taekwondo basics.  Basics such as bare-bones basics: kicking , punching, etc, which I do at home generally 3 or 5 sets of 10 per side.  

Did I forget to mention:
• "Black Belt Karate ~ An Intensive Course", Kodansha International Publishers, Copyright 2006 - Author Hirokazu Kanazawa, 10th Dan.  A nice diversion that offers quite an array of textual and photographic depictions of Karate by way of Japan.  Shotokan does help me to be aware of 'Hanmei', the 45-degree angle of hips when executing any strike with the feet or hands.  I did not understand the impact of this power generated by 'hanmei' until I studied the physics of it and it became more clarified in my mind.  The old boxing adage, 'Put your hip into it!' rings true. 

kind regards!
Eric Breiby

Actually...

The ATA used that 20 form system, until 1983, when the first Songahm forms were released.

At my current rank, I know 10 of the Songahm forms.

And 11 of the forms that were used prior to 1983 by the ATA, which were written by General Choi.

On the boxing technique?  Really, no.  It won't be part of the curriculum, although I might share some of the very basics in areas where they can apply.  Footwork in particular, as it provides a good base from which to learn to spar, whether you're boxing or TKD sparring.  If students want more than that brief glimpse of the sweet science, I'll refer them to my boxing trainer, as he's certainly far better versed in the sport than I am.

I don't know that my future studio would be a lot different from the ATA, at least as far as the character of the martial arts training goes.  The ATA trained me pretty well, and I've always had the great fortune, of working under fantastic instructors.

But if you're asking if my future studio will be a little less on the commercial side?  That's a fair assumption. 

Basically all I'll be doing, is teaching a very simple, bare bones Taekwondo program, using the "Original 20 forms" that General Choi wrote, as a base for my curriculum.  One steps for white and yellow belts.  Sparring from green belt and up.  Self defense issues and applications 'fit in' to the routine periodically with a chief focus on prevention/avoidance.

Overall it'll bear great resemblence to how my first instructor in the ATA taught me as a kid.

My friend is going to share Koryo, and a couple of the Taegeuk forms with me.  In reply, I'll teach her a couple of my favorite forms. Should be a blast.

I don't know if I would ever offer a distance/correspondance learning deal myself.  That to me would definitely require some serious thought on how to teach via that medium.  I think it's possible to execute good rank testings via technology. 

But actually teaching someone?  That'd be pretty tough stuff there.  There are things you do, teaching someone, that simply require the instructor to be 'hands-on' to do it, and do it safely for the sake of the student's health.

I'll keep everyone posted on how things go in the teaching direction.  I'm still probably a year, perhaps 2, away from actually opening up my program.  I do very much appreciate the well wishes! 

The business plan is shaping up pretty nice so far.  I'm still researching and checking around for locations, as well as putting together my databases and so on, to help me keep my records and books straight. 

Take care!

msb1964 wrote: GM Hee Il Cho has some great kicks especially his spinning back kick. I think he kept Everlast in business by splitting heavy bags. The only two things I disagree with is 1. His home study course and 2. he only does the twenty form of the ITF instead of the whole twenty-four. The forms are the foundation of the Art and to leave out four makes the Art incomplete. Mike

Not if you were only taught 20 forms in the first place.

You can't teach something, or pass on something you did not learn.

IF you are in the ITF, and you're only using 20 of the 24 promulgated forms... then YES... I agree, that your arguement holds water.

But if you don't use any of those forms, and belong to an organization OTHER than the ITF... your TKD education isn't 'incomplete' it is 'different'.

If you only use the 20 forms and you are in a different organization, or you are independent... the education is not 'incomplete' either.

Is our TKD education incomplete?

Do you study the Palgwe and Taegeuk curriculums, plus the Songahm curriculum, PLUS the ITF curriculum?  If you master ALL of that material well... your education is about as complete as you can get...  but let's face it... you don't need to learn ALL of those curriculums, to have a rock solid education in TKD.

I'll even say this.  In the 24 forms... NOTHING is really added, technique-wise, that isn't already amply represented in the 20 forms.   You just learn a different pattern, that may, or may not be more difficult than your previous one.

If you have 9 gup levels, spaced out over 6 belts... and a form for each gup level, and a form for each of the 9 degrees of black belt...

You can very easily 'complete' your TKD education (9th degree), with just 18 forms.

 (BTW... here's a hint... you're not going to see a 'complete' education in TKD, until the moment you drop dead... because the learning never stops, even after you hit 9th degree.  You can't complete an education in TKD, and the art is NEVER 'complete'.  As time passes, you'll see new innovations in the art.  It may even be, that one of the General's successors, comes up with and causes ITF adoption of those innovations, as new things are learned about the art, and how to best train people.)

On the subject of Hee Il Cho's video training program...

I don't have 'any' problem with him having that program.  For an experienced martial artist, it can be a great way to add a Taekwondo education to one's life.

For a newbie... it could be the difference between them studying a little of the art, or never even trying it.

I'd say if you send in your video testing to Hee Il Cho, and assuming it IS clear video, and assuming you can follow instructors... Hee Il Cho, long as he's been around... can look at your video testing, and readily tell you whether you're ready to move up, or if you need to go back and work on things.

I AGREE, that correspondance course is NOT the IDEAL way to learn...  That said, IF someone can follow directions, and honestly practice with some attention to basic body mechanics and detail... they CAN learn that way. 

Heck.. I learned how to bowl, through 3-5 minute video segments presented by a pro bowler on TV as a kid, well enough that when I got older and joined the Marines, just 10 minutes of work with an in-person professional bowler/coach, was enough to have me throwing at a 190 average!

So it CAN be done, if someone doesn't just watch video, but actually studies it and practices with attention to detail.

The OTHER thing I can say about Hee Il Cho's program, is that he won't let someone test by video for black belt.  To make black belt, they MUST test live and in person before a qualified testing panel from the AIMAA, in an AIMAA school.  So he's not giving belts away by ANY stretch of the imagination.

If I was talking with a new person to TKD and they asked me, "Should I just go with video training, or should I go to a school to learn from an instructor?"  My first answer is always going to be, "Your best bet is to train from a live and in person instructor.  You'll progress faster and safer."

But I can't honestly tell them, "No... video training is useless."  Because simply put, I know better.

I don't know what his video training student body looks like, but I'd be willing to bet you, that there aren't a lot of students in that program... and that the ones who ARE in that program, are very likely already experienced in another style of martial arts.  Some of them may even be TKD students or instructors, who are changing organizations, and using the tapes to assimilate a curriculum they're not used to, so they can 'fall in step' with AIMAA as their new organization.

Gm Cho was with the ITF in the early 70's long after the 24 Patterns were completed. As an International instructor with his own group, he took it upon himself to learn the WTF/KKW patterns put not the last four patterns of the ITF. He also published his books The COMPLETE ITF HYUNG. To be complete you have to have ALL the Patterns. Now if he was just running a school I'd have no problem with it but he is running an International Organization saying they teach both ITF and WTF. As I said before, the patterns are the foundation of TKD and should be viewed as such. If he took the time to learn 25 new WTF/KKW patterns it wouldn't be asking too much to include the last four for the ITF.

Mike