| Total Views: 209 - Total Replies: 18 |
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| POSTED BY: IcemanSK on 05/15/2008 20:54:25 |
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Old_Guy wrote:
"but in that environment, serious and/or mature students should not be held back by a one hour mixed class with immature and/or indifferent students. By the same token, students who are there for a martial artsy after school program should not be expected to train at the same level" There is the difference "immature and/or indifferent students" were asked to leave, literally walked to the door. Every student was pushed to their best. You don't have to be the best but you have to do your best. I liked the football analogy, we do train like every day is game day, everyone did. It has been that way in every dojang I've been in except for one in Daegu Korea which is a year I would like to forget about. Master Suan told me that when he moved back to the states he had to tone down the program, a lot of folks just don't want to be pushed or push themselves to be as good as they could be. But if all people want is a cardio workout isn't there cardio kick boxing or something like it available. I could see a dojang offering such a class on the side but to let their TKD class become that is disgraceful. How would anyone put a BB on someone's waist knowing this person now represents you and your school and that they view their training as a cardio program or a "Martial Artsy" after school program. Please tell me you were just trying to put one over on the Old Guy, it isn't really like that...is it? 
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I hear that story of having to "tone it down" when they come to the States often. |
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Old_Guy wrote:
There is the difference "immature and/or indifferent students" were asked to leave, literally walked to the door. Every student was pushed to their best. You don't have to be the best but you have to do your best. I liked the football analogy, we do train like every day is game day, everyone did. It has been that way in every dojang I've been in except for one in Daegu Korea which is a year I would like to forget about. Master Suan told me that when he moved back to the states he had to tone down the program, a lot of folks just don't want to be pushed or push themselves to be as good as they could be. But if all people want is a cardio workout isn't there cardio kick boxing or something like it available. I could see a dojang offering such a class on the side but to let their TKD class become that is disgraceful. How would anyone put a BB on someone's waist knowing this person now represents you and your school and that they view their training as a cardio program or a "Martial Artsy" after school program. Please tell me you were just trying to put one over on the Old Guy, it isn't really like that...is it?
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If I had my druthers, it would be as you describe in the first paragraph. And I personally do train in each class as though I were preparing for a tournament. But sadly, most students do not. As for the cardio-TKD crowd and the martial artsy after school crowd, I must say that I can only wish that I were trying to put one over on the old guy. But sadly, there are many schools that not only put blackbelts on them, but some that actively bring them in and run them through two year blackbelt programs which pretty much guarantee that if the student pays the testing fees and shows up to test, they will get a black belt at the end. They may not be able to defend themselves or even be able to performe a clean, crisp poomsae, but hey, they got a blackbelt. Shameful. I will say that some schools that do this do so for fear of not making the rent, but there are several chain schools that I know of that have figured out that key to the market in martial arts in the US suburbs is in black fabric with gold stitching. 'My little Johnny has his black belt' is another feather for the suburban parent to put in their parenting cap. And should Johny be chastised by the instructor for poor performance and a crappy attitude, mom and dad threaten to pull their kid out and to sue for emotional damages. To these people, martial arts is like flag Boys club football or soccor, where each kid gets to play in each game, regardless of their tallent, skill, or level of commitment. Add into the mix MA billing companies and contracts, and the school is tied to giving the kid a blackbelt even more. I think that some of the mentality is that most students quit after blackbelt and then go on to do non-martial arts related careers and hobbies, so they may as well take the money to keep the school going. Daniel
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교사 Yidan kumdo, yigeub taekwondo
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| POSTED BY: Old_Guy on 05/17/2008 06:17:39 |
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"I will say that some schools that do this do so for fear of not making the rent, but there are several chain schools that I know of that have figured out that key to the market in martial arts in the US suburbs is in black fabric with gold stitching. 'My little Johnny has his black belt' is another feather for the suburban parent to put in their parenting cap. And should Johny be chastised by the instructor for poor performance and a crappy attitude, mom and dad threaten to pull their kid out and to sue for emotional damages. To these people, martial arts is like flag Boys club football or soccor, where each kid gets to play in each game, regardless of their tallent, skill, or level of commitment."
Ya'll ain't given me the warm fuzzy about relocating back to the US anytime soon. Looks like we'll just look harder for a class that will push us to the next level of our training.
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Student of the Zero Chamber Power Kick
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I guess that it depends on what you're looking to do. There is a market in the States for a traditional, tough school. I think that such schools tend to have better retention (speculation on my part) because they don't focus on turning out blacbelts, but rather focus on solid training. Because of this, the students are more likely to stick around. At the same time, such schools tend to have smaller student bodies; eliminating the after school program crowd will reduce enrolement.
The trick is to know your customer and to make sure that you're customer knows what your dojang is about. If the standard is set high for all students beginning at white belt, the clowns who just want belts will be weeded out on their first day of class either by quitting or getting serious. Such schools tend to have a sterling reputation in the MA community.
But presenting a traditional school in the format of a McDojo will most certainly send the wrong message to potential students and cause all manner of problems down the road.
Daniel
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교사 Yidan kumdo, yigeub taekwondo
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| POSTED BY: goingd on 05/27/2008 18:31:49 |
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I would say to invite them to train in the adult classes. That way instead of him having no challenge and living with the boredom, he won't have time to be bored because it will be much more of a challenge for him to train with the adults.
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I don't care about logic - a black belt isn't something you wear, it is something you are.
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| POSTED BY: Tryak on 06/16/2008 02:17:00 |
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Anyone over 12 here takes class with the adults. Students around 9-12 can be bumped up to adult classes when they reach around 4th Gup or they can remain with the kids classes if they would prefer. Anyone who was "clobbering" anyone could be dismissed from class as that is not the point of sparring.
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Crouching tiger...is just a cat lover.
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In my area there are two different martial arts schools, one is the TKD school I study at and a Kempo Karate studio. The Kempo school seperates adults from kids(not sure of age division) because the instructor doesn't want adults to feel embrassed to be strarting at the same level as a 10-year old. He is very strict and hard with his training. The instructor use to study TKD but told me it wasn't a complete art like kempo. At my school there is a kids class that happens right after school gets out, sometimes adults take that class as do I depending on when I get to town. We have a family class and then an advance class for brown, red and black belts, since I travel over an hour to study I'm permitted to stay for the advance class since I can only come once a week. We have a seperate time for white belts so that the instructors can work with them and help them develope the basics without having to worry about the colored belts. The Kempo school has a solid base of students but I would never want to train there, I use to wrestle for coaches like him and I don't feel safe with people like him. But he does have a high turn over of students because if they aren't "comitted" to what he feels is right he stops training them. I love the enviroment that my school provides, I don't feel embarassed with people younger then me having a higher rank, most them look up to me anyways since I'm young enough that I'm the cool adult but old enough to be able to answer some of their questions about life outside junior high and high school but they don't feel like I'm parent.
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Exwrestler turned Martial Artist
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Your school sounds a lot like mine, Huey. I would disagree with the Kenpo gent that taekwondo is an incomplete art, however. If he's just talking about the Olympic sparring, then I'd agree that it is incomplete, but Olympic sparring is not the whole of the art.
Daniel
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교사 Yidan kumdo, yigeub taekwondo
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| POSTED BY: doughboy on 07/18/2008 22:46:35 |
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well, for the next couple months, i got a class with kids as young as 6 yr old and as old as 15 yr old, with as little as 2 weeks of experience and as much as 2 years of experience. where do i start with this crowd? haha.
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i'm delicious
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