DireWolf wrote: Does anyone find watching MMA usefull?

Yes, but I do MMA.

DireWolf wrote: But whenever I watch one of these matches on TV it always ends up having two men laying on the floor while they grapple each other. This seem boring to watch. IMHO....

Boxing or TKD can be boring too. If the fighters are too exhausted or tentative or unskilled to do anything then it doesn’t matter where the fight happens. It will just be dull.

Ground fighting is more exciting to watch if you understand all of the details about what’s going on. Before I experienced BJJ first-hand I didn’t really appreciate watching that part of it all that much. You don’t have to understand the subtle movements that add power to kicks and punches to appreciate the pain when a guy gets smashed in the face. Some grappling techniques like armbars look painful and are understandable in that way, but others… not so much. I never thought triangle chokes looked that bad, but having nearly experienced unconsciousness as a result of them, I can now say differently. An untrained person can’t fully appreciate the subtleties of TKD footwork. It’s kinda like that.

DireWolf wrote: does ground fighting in MMA result because of the rules?

It happens because it's allowed and it's devastating.  
 TKD was my first love in the world of martial arts and I still believe in it as a viable method of self defense. I don't want this to come across like I'm down on TKD at all. But there are a lot of people that have misconceptions about their training and think that it's the be all and end all of fighting. I would say the same to a grappler that can't punch and kick. If you don't know how to fight on the ground then you should expect to lose against someone who does if you are on the ground.

I started training in jiujitsu for the reason that MikeD_TKD brought up. I wanted to learn what not to do. More specifically I wanted to know what my opponent would want to do so I would know how to defend it. As it turns out, though, I am crazy in love with grappling now. Despite having over a decade of stand-up experience and less than two years of grappling experience, I would feel just as comfortable on the ground as standing.

DireWolf wrote: are we likely to be at a disadvantage since TKD doesn't involve ground fighting?

IMO - If there is a part of fighting that you aren't good at and you fight someone who is, then yes. Same goes for a grappler that can't strike. What you don't know can hurt you if someone else does.

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Half the game is mental. The other half is being mental.

DireWolf wrote: It seems like watching a Mixed Martial Arts match should teach you something about sparring or self defense... But whenever I watch one of these matches on TV it always ends up having two men laying on the floor while they grapple each other. This seem boring to watch. IMHO....   I'm wondering, does ground fighting in MMA result because of the rules? If we have to use TKD to defend ourselves on the street, are we likely to be at a disadvantage since TKD doesn't involve ground fighting?

I do find that watching any martial arts is useful, including grappling arts.  I don't find watching a ground fight to be particularly exciting, but it is helpful to see what a highly skilled grappler can do and how they do it.

As for street defense, 99.9% of the population has no real MA training whatsoever, and most of those who do do not train regularly or quit upon getting their blackbelt.  Any regular MA training that involves realtime sparring provides an immense advantage in a real life situation, especially if the training includes defense against weapons.

Daniel

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교사 Yidan kumdo, Ildan taekwondo

CelticTiger wrote: DireWolf wrote: I'm wondering, does ground fighting in MMA result because of the rules? If we have to use TKD to defend ourselves on the street, are we likely to be at a disadvantage since TKD doesn't involve ground fighting? As for street defense, 99.9% of the population has no real MA training whatsoever, and most of those who do do not train regularly or quit upon getting their blackbelt.  Any regular MA training that involves realtime sparring provides an immense advantage in a real life situation, especially if the training includes defense against weapons.

good point.  same argument goes for those who compares UFC to martial arts.  what are the chances of you going face to face with a pro fighter who trains all day everyday on the street?  chances are, people you fight on the street can be either really well built and strong without much technique, or got some techniques but without much strength, or just little bit of power and little bit of technique. 

and, let's say what most people, who's never done any training on internet, say is true. that is, let's assume that most street fights end up on a ground (in my experience, it's more of a hockey fight/boxing, pound for pound, and if one of us do end up on the ground, it's because we can't even stand anymore from taking so much beating, not to take the fight to the ground.  so at that point, even if you do know how to ground fight, you won't be able to do it properly).  however, for the sake of argument, let's assume that we ended up on the ground.  who will win?  those who are trying to manipulate your joints or those who know how to punch and just throwing punches?  even if someone's on top of you, if you start throwing punches as soon as you hit the ground, they are not gonna be able to grab onto your arm and give you an armbar.  and, of course, if you do run into bas rutten on the street, please, just don't say anything about his mama. 

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i'm delicious

One of the things that I find interesting about this notion that 'all fights go to the ground' is that I've been in a lot of fights, and while not recent, none of them have ever gone to the ground.  I have seen fights within the past five years and none of them went to the ground.  Well, one guy getting knocked out went to the ground, but the fight was over at that point. 

I'm not going to categorically say that most fights don't go the ground; I don't have any data to back that up, but my experience has been that generally, they don't.

Daniel

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교사 Yidan kumdo, Ildan taekwondo

spiffokeen wrote: DireWolf wrote: Does anyone find watching MMA usefull? Yes, but I do MMA. DireWolf wrote: But whenever I watch one of these matches on TV it always ends up having two men laying on the floor while they grapple each other. This seem boring to watch. IMHO.... Boxing or TKD can be boring too. If the fighters are too exhausted or tentative or unskilled to do anything then it doesn’t matter where the fight happens. It will just be dull. Ground fighting is more exciting to watch if you understand all of the details about what’s going on. Before I experienced BJJ first-hand I didn’t really appreciate watching that part of it all that much. You don’t have to understand the subtle movements that add power to kicks and punches to appreciate the pain when a guy gets smashed in the face. Some grappling techniques like armbars look painful and are understandable in that way, but others… not so much. I never thought triangle chokes looked that bad, but having nearly experienced unconsciousness as a result of them, I can now say differently. An untrained person can’t fully appreciate the subtleties of TKD footwork. It’s kinda like that. DireWolf wrote: does ground fighting in MMA result because of the rules? It happens because it's allowed and it's devastating.    TKD was my first love in the world of martial arts and I still believe in it as a viable method of self defense. I don't want this to come across like I'm down on TKD at all. But there are a lot of people that have misconceptions about their training and think that it's the be all and end all of fighting. I would say the same to a grappler that can't punch and kick. If you don't know how to fight on the ground then you should expect to lose against someone who does if you are on the ground. I started training in jiujitsu for the reason that MikeD_TKD brought up. I wanted to learn what not to do. More specifically I wanted to know what my opponent would want to do so I would know how to defend it. As it turns out, though, I am crazy in love with grappling now. Despite having over a decade of stand-up experience and less than two years of grappling experience, I would feel just as comfortable on the ground as standing. DireWolf wrote: are we likely to be at a disadvantage since TKD doesn't involve ground fighting? IMO - If there is a part of fighting that you aren't good at and you fight someone who is, then yes. Same goes for a grappler that can't strike. What you don't know can hurt you if someone else does.

Very well said!

Daniel

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교사 Yidan kumdo, Ildan taekwondo

This one may have been done already but I think it's important to remember that even though there are less rules in UFC as opposed to say TKD, in a street fight there are no rules, the two are pretty different.
I suppose everyone's experience is going to be different, one of the things about events like the UFC is that it has opened our eyes to the merits of other styles.
For most people, to simply understand that there is a range beyond punching and kicking is pretty useful in itself.