Hi all, first time postie,

I have read all your comments and feel that there is no clear path for BB to follow. What I mean is at Kup level there goal is BB.Then when BB is reached it seems that no planning has happened to retain the new BB. All you get is either
take over a club or open a club, which then semi retires you from training.

I see the frustration of putting in all those years of training to end up being...
a 1st black belt, with no new goals, direction, no real support from your wider
group of club instructors or Masters. I have seen all of my old students, seniors black tips and 1st Dans leave due to these frustrations. Another issue is the politics, lets not go there....

IF there was an actual plan in place to provide adequate support and guidance for new BB then we would see a huge change in our numbers. We need to set up
individual development plans for each student. Below is just an idea of a development plan that maybe useful...


Training Development Plan

example: Joe Bloggs

Rank: 1st Dan         Graded: Nov 2000

Next Grading: Target 2002

Date: 22/04/08

Training required:

1) Advanced one on one self defense

Action: Joe to attend 3 day seminar every 2nd month,training with Master Mansel
Dates:  May 15th - 17th 2008 - 1900hrs 

2) Patterns 

Action: Joe to review all current kup patterns, break down pattern and work out counter attack techiques.

Dates: 1 pattern per month.

3) Coaching and Personal Development

Action: Joe to attend Formal Coaching workshop, certification and or personal Development program.

Date: as advised

4) Involvement and Participation

Action: Joe to visit various clubs around region

Date: As advised

5) BB Camp

Action: Joe is to attend a formal training camp

Date: TBA

6) Attendance

Action: Joe is required to attend training to a satisfactory level.

Date: Reviewed by Instructor

7) Competition

Action: Joe is to attend, assist or compete in local, national, international TKD events

Dates: June 08 National champs, Dec NZ Open 08.


Hope this helps



Regards


Kapai
2nd Dan WTF Style TKD











 

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Getting through life takes just a LITTLE bit of insanity!*g*

CelticTiger wrote: As near as I can tell, most martial arts students quit after getting their blackbelts.  I have been fortunate to see a greater percentage of our kumdo students stay after reaching blackbelt, but even though the percentage is greater, there is still a large dropoff after first dan. A few thoughts: I feel that students who do stay on after getting their black blelts boost the morale of the class as a whole and encourage others to stay on simply by their continued presence. Also, student retained after blackbelt is level help keep the school going when enrollment is weak due to tough financial times (like now).   Continuing first dan students give credibility to the school and help to avoid the impression that the dojang is merely an after school program or summer camp.  While the dojang may offer such programs, those should be nice perks and extras, not the main function of the dojang. Lastly, first dan students who stay on can help with lower belt students, thus a larger class can get be taught with students still getting a level of personalized attention. My questions to others here are, at your dojang, how is the student retention after first dan and does your dojang emphasize continued instruction after first dan?  If so, how effective is that emphasis? Daniel

Are you quoting Yngwie Malmsteen in your signature, from the famous "airline incedent"?

Anyways to post  some thoughts....
I'll  use the first school that I went to in Springfield Mall in Springfield, VA. Their "business model" depended on getting new students, not retaining old ones. Consequently there wasn't even a class for black belts, your progression would stop at first dan, because they couldn't get as much money per month out of you as they could an incoming no belt. So if you left it was no big deal.

To retain black belt students (IMO) You have to emphasize their impotance to the school as role models and "pillars" of the school. In many cases a black belt student has been with the school for a while, knows the system and instructors and has the shown the discipine and perserverance to make it to black belt.

There needs to be a progression path for black belts, there are nine more dans after 1st, it's a long path if folks are willing to pursue it.

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Raleigh NC, 1st Dan

Ah, you caught the Malmsteen!  His last album was titled, 'Unleash the fury', a reference to the airline incident.  I've been a Malmsteen fan for the past three decades.

Daniel

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교사 Yidan kumdo, Ildan taekwondo

NCBlackBelt wrote: To retain black belt students (IMO) You have to emphasize their impotance to the school as role models and "pillars" of the school. In many cases a black belt student has been with the school for a while, knows the system and instructors and has the shown the discipine and perserverance to make it to black belt. There needs to be a progression path for black belts, there are nine more dans after 1st, it's a long path if folks are willing to pursue it.

There seems to be an inherent contradiction with your statement. Are BBs there for themselves or others? If there is a path for progression, is it as a role model or their development?
Students join for many reasons. For some, it is simply to get a BB, as for many in the general public it is viewed as a terminal degree. True students know better. So when someone is coming up the ranks, we may shape this mis-perception, but we still have to offer them something new when they make BB, if it is to take hold. (Like stated in a previous post, if you don't give the customer what they want, someone else will.)
So I think they must understand from early on, a BB means they have the basics, the letters of the alphabet. As BBs they will write words, sentences, paragraphs & whole stories. The story they write & how great it is, will be determined by by the writer & the mentor, provided they connect, offer guidance that is accepted.

TK-D wrote: NCBlackBelt wrote: To retain black belt students (IMO) You have to emphasize their impotance to the school as role models and "pillars" of the school. In many cases a black belt student has been with the school for a while, knows the system and instructors and has the shown the discipine and perserverance to make it to black belt. There needs to be a progression path for black belts, there are nine more dans after 1st, it's a long path if folks are willing to pursue it. There seems to be an inherent contradiction with your statement. Are BBs there for themselves or others? If there is a path for progression, is it as a role model or their development? Students join for many reasons. For some, it is simply to get a BB, as for many in the general public it is viewed as a terminal degree. True students know better. So when someone is coming up the ranks, we may shape this mis-perception, but we still have to offer them something new when they make BB, if it is to take hold. (Like stated in a previous post, if you don't give the customer what they want, someone else will.) So I think they must understand from early on, a BB means they have the basics, the letters of the alphabet. As BBs they will write words, sentences, paragraphs & whole stories. The story they write & how great it is, will be determined by by the writer & the mentor, provided they connect, offer guidance that is accepted.

I'll expand on this a little,

In the school that i was referencing, they emphasized black belt rank as an ending, not a beginning. There were no black belt classes, and black belt students were rarely called upon as examples or used as assistant instructors. This created an environment where "where do I go now" was a question asked alot.

I feel that to retain a black belt a school needs not only to provide a progression path, but also instill the importance of the accomplishment, a black belt is a big deal not every person who starts out in the martial arts gets there.

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Raleigh NC, 1st Dan

NCBlackBelt wrote: I feel that to retain a black belt a school needs not only to provide a progression path, but also instill the importance of the accomplishment, a black belt is a big deal not every person who starts out in the martial arts gets there.

 
Thanks for the clarification. I see & agree mostly. Maybe the point or term that a BB is a big deal may be just words. It is an accomplishment & few do make it. However, in the big picture it is just the start, so I don't look at it as a big deal, as it does not jive with my conception of a 1st degree BB. I think when one passes the thershold of expert or instructor at 4th degree, that is somewhat more of a big deal. I look at 1st-3rd degree BB as novice level.

Thanks Ranger for the reply. 

Quote: Ranger.
 If you don't give your customer what they need... rest assured, someone else WILL!!!!!!!!

So true, I have seen it time and time again. Everyone is searching for the best,
whether it be, instructor, master, club, equipment. Funny thing is that these things are exterior. Students come and go, if they only really looked at themselves and fix the interior. Isn't it better to seek knowledge than it to be given it to you on a plate and spoon feed. I think its more satisfying dont you.

Who is the customer......your student, they pay your wage, building rental, takeaways after training lol. So if the student is willing and sometimes we do have students like that...willing. Remember we are human to, we are not super human WITH ALL THESE POWERS AND HIDDEN SECRETS.


Students need us to train them, to teach them, to guide them, NOT TO GIVE THEM.

Saying goes. Give a man a fish and he will feed his family. But give him the tools
and he will catch fish for life.