Welcome Guest Login or Signup
LIVE CHAT | INSTANT MESSENGER | BOOKMARK
| LANGUAGE:
 
Google

BLOGS   WRITE NEW BLOG   EDIT BLOGS  
 
RSS
Art, sport, and self defense
Posted On 05/07/2008 06:41:02 by CelticTiger
I see on every martial arts forum including this one the debate about martial art versus sport.  I must say that it is handled much more pleasantly and in more a spirit of discussion on this forum than I've seen anywhere else.

But why do we care?  I see MMA guys trash talk TMA guys and make statements about how TMA doesn't work in the ring, all fights go to the ground (I disagree) and other such commentary.  Then I see guys within TMA look down their noses at the sport/tournament oriented taekwondo, making similar comments regarding sport/tournament vs. 'real' fighting. Does the sport aspect in some way diminish our ability to defend ourselves?
   
One thing that is to be considered in the whole SD/sport thing is this: nobody in the west differentiates boxing in terms of sport or self defense.  We all acknowledge that anyone attempting to mug Evander Holyfield is very likely to end up in the hospital.  We don't look at Floyd Mayweather and question whether or not he can defend himself.  Guys who find themselves in fights with golden gloves boxers nearly always regret it. 

TKD is primarily a striking art.  It has offense and defense built into it.  While I do believe that a TKD class should have some focus on 'real world' self defense and training on how to deal with an armed assailant, in no way do I think that a highly skilled tournament competitor is at some sort of major disadvantage should they be attacked.

In WTF class and tournaments (can't speak for others), we spar, nearly always full contact.  While we do wear padding, we still get kicked/punched off armour in a match and even with padding, there are knockouts.  Consider that a kick from a skilled taekwondoin packs the equivalent force of Barry Bond's swing at the ball with a baseball bat.  Even with padding, nobody would casually blow off getting hit with a baseball bat.  Yet we practice defending against such blows regularly.

I think that the debate about sport/art in terms of superiority of one over the other is a rather tired one.  People take taekwondo for a lot of different reasons.  Each of those reasons are valid, and while all may not be for self defense, all who take taekwondo are going to emerge more able to defend themselves than before they took the class. 

Daniel

Tags: Martial Arts Self Defense Sport



Bookmark:



Viewing 1 - 5 out of 5 Comments

05/07/2008 21:42:55
if you wanna see some good street fights with high kicks, go to a highschool in korea.  when you first enter middle school and highschool, the very first thing you do on the very first day of school is dualing between those who were well known as good fighters from elementary/middle school.  since kids from 3-4 elementary schools will end up at the same middle school and 5-6 middle schools end up at the same highschool, dualing and setting the order is the first thing we do.  and, man, there were some crazy fights with a lot of fancy moves.  nothing like kung fu movies, but moves that almost looks like...  wesley snipes movies.  fast, but not too fast that techniques don't have much power.  powerful, but not too powerful so that it gets slow.  with just right amount of jumping moves with right speed.  

these were "civilized" fights in a way - we can either admit that we lost or we keep going till someone gets knocked out.  and if someone admitted that they lost, then we will not continue the fight, and once the order has been sorted, we stay good friends, no beef or grudge afterward. 

those were the honorable fights with no rules.  we punch, kick, elbow, knee, and ground and pound.  nobody would use any dirty tricks like biting, scratching, or using weapons, because nobody wants to hear about how they fight like a girl or they are cowards.  it doesn't seem to work that way in north america though.  it's almost like i don't wanna win a street fight, because i don't wanna get shot or get jumped by 20 of his friends later that day. 



05/07/2008 21:24:25
i once fought a golden glove boxer back in 2001 at a bar in vancouver.  i took 3 solid shots to the face in the first 5 sec into the fight, and i was messed up.  i ended up grabbing his hair and kneed him in the face about 10 times till i could feel his blood running down my leg. 


05/07/2008 19:20:18
I think MMA is also sporty so I don't know what the debate is about. 
In the UFC and the other so called MMA events the fighters are wearing
gloves and there is a referree that separates the combatants.  He also
makes decisions of whether or not the fight can continue.  It is a
little closer to actual fighting, but it is still controlled.  In a
real fight there are no gloves.  There is no ref.  There are no rules. 
I don't think there
has ever been a "kicker" in these MMA events.  They have been mostly
jui jitsu, muay tai, and American Kickboxing (which is not a martial
art at all) fighters.   I was watching this match between Chuck Liddel
and  Tito  Ortiz.  It was sad.  They did these muay tai type kicks to
the leg.  They didn't look very good.  Eventually Chuck won by punching
Ortiz out.  Yes, he won in a very non martial art like fashion.  He
boxed.  Great.  Mixed Martial Arts.  Yeah right.  Anyway, I don't agree
that all fights end up on the ground.  They do in these UFC like things
and that is because 1) They don't know how to find standing up and 2)
They have the mentality that it always ends up on the ground so they go
to the ground.  It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.  In my opinion those
fighters aren't that good.  They are so slow and overly cautious.  When
you are too cautious you end up getting beat.  You need to relax and
focus on the fight.  Just go for it.  If you have trained well then you
should be fine.


05/07/2008 15:13:58
Some people use martial arts for confidence, but unfortunately end up heightening their own insecurities. Take that with a dash of egocentrism in one's style, and combine it with the awesome power of anonymity in the internet--and you've got quite a nasty stew.


05/07/2008 09:12:43
Well stated Daniel.  I think too many people see ticky-tac sparring events w/ no head shots or hand techniques, and think "well I would just paste that armour-clad dude on the street."  I understand the difference between sparring and fighting.  Sparring has rules and, sometimes, competitors wear protective gear.  Fighting is about survival.  Nothing more.  Someone is trying to hurt you (or someone you care about) and there are no rules.  Anything can be called a "sport" IMO.  Darts, tennis, curling, target shooting, even fishing!  So calling TKD or any other MA where there is competition and rule-sets makes it a sport.  Now what makes it an Art?  Do I really care if it is or isn't?  People that work for years to become excellent welders have been called "artists" (Look at the motorcycle builder Jesse James) but what they do isn't a sport! 

So why the debates?  Why all the "my way is better then..." stuff?  Simple!  Most people feel the need to be part of something that others accept as credible if not "the best".  When it is all said and done, does it really matter?  Is anyone going to care if you defend yourself using Kung Fu, JJ, BJJ, boxing, or TKD?  I doubt it.  Is it going to matter that your strike was picture perfect because you compete in tournaments, or train really hard in Poomse/Kata?  Will your attacker be impressed that you took him out w/ a 560 spinning hook kick of death?  Will you lose a competition because you strike just hard enough to hear that nice "smack" from the hogue then breaking your opponent in two?  WHO REALLY CARES! 

It is not worth my time getting into all of those arguements and stupid trivialities!  People train for whatever reason they want, where ever they want, how ever they want.  I know why I train.  I know why I do tournaments and train at my school.  I don't go yammering out about how what I do is so "the best" or chide others for their choices.  A bit more open mindedness is what is needed.  People need to be less myopic! 




*** TKDspace.com | Your Online Taekwondo Community ***